• GhostalmediaOP
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    13411 months ago

    The fact that Ram drivers are a close second is hilarious. I guess there is some truth to all the jokes about Rams being driven by aggressive idiots.

    • @willis936@lemmy.world
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      1411 months ago

      The Forbes article seems to be citing numbers that are now a few weeks out of date. They cite that Tesla drivers have 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers and Ram has 22.76. If you go to their source link you’ll see that the more recent numbers are Tesla: 31.13 and Ram: 32.90.

      https://www.lendingtree.com/insurance/brand-incidents-study/

      Ram in MA is 64.44 and I want these fucking things outlawed.

      • @yimby@lemmy.ca
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        711 months ago

        Read the source more carefully

        Tesla drivers have the highest accident rate. From Nov. 14, 2022, through Nov. 14, 2023, Tesla drivers had 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers. Ram (22.76)

        Accidents only. Worst driver counts DUIs a d fines as well.

      • GhostalmediaOP
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        211 months ago

        It’s it the Ram that’s the problem, or the driver that also likes to cover the Ram in Infowars bumper stickers?

    • kingthrillgore
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      711 months ago

      “If you can’t Dodge it, Ram it”

      I see why Stellantis spun Ram into its own brand now.

    • Flying Squid
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      511 months ago

      I had a friend years ago with Dodge Ram van. He said, “it says Dodge in the front because that’s what you’re supposed to do when you see it coming and Ram in the back because you didn’t read the warning on the front.”

    • @AlternateRoute@lemmy.ca
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      1011 months ago

      Our latest analysis uses QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance quote data to determine which car brands have the worst drivers.

      Wonder how many drivers of each brand they actually have, that would very much sway the numbers if they have smaller numbers of some brands insured.

      This sounds like less of a “study” and more of a top ten list for page views.

      • @TurboDiesel@lemmy.world
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        811 months ago

        Yeah, their “safest” list top 3 were all dead marques; Mercury, Pontiac, and Saturn. They definitely have some sampling issues.

      • Lev_Astov
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        311 months ago

        The right source for this kind of stuff is the NHTSA’s database, but you can’t manufacture juicy headlines from that.

  • @stewsters@lemmy.world
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    2411 months ago

    I blame the touchscreen first ideology. Give em some physical buttons that you can feel without taking your eyes off the road.

    That and the sheer power can make accidents happen faster than you can react.

  • @Salad_Fries@lemmy.world
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    6011 months ago

    I know its super pedantic, but the word “accident” really grinds my gears in this context.

    The proper terminology is “crash”… accident infers that there is no fault or misconduct.

    • @EvacuateSoul@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Trucking companies have switched the terms in the same way, since “accident” lightens responsibility. Even a not-at-fault crash could have been preventable often times, which is what they try to emphasize.

      • @Mongostein@lemmy.ca
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        211 months ago

        One of the many ways trucking companies avoid liability by putting all responsibility for fuck-ups on the driver.

    • @Oderus@lemmy.world
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      1011 months ago

      You can intentionally crash into someone which would not be an accident but if you crash into someone not on purpose, then it’s an accident.

      • @Pipoca@lemmy.world
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        011 months ago

        It doesn’t have to be on purpose. Accident implies that something was just a freak occurrence beyond anyone’s control. You can’t fix accidents. You can fix crashes.

        If you’re driving negligently - drunk driving, not paying attention, etc then it’s not an accident.

        If it’s due to bad road design, then it’s not an accident.

    • @Tatters@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      The official UK Police term is Road Traffic Collision, or RTC, which does not imply fault or otherwise.

    • N-E-N
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      611 months ago

      Wouldn’t an accident still involve “fault”

      • @Pipoca@lemmy.world
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        111 months ago

        Colloquially, accidents are random events without intention or fault.

        That’s why there’s a push to use neutral terms like “crash” that don’t imply that the “accident” was just a random accidental mistake.

        And fault is often a bit of a misnomer. Many crashes are the result of bad design, but the courts would never say “this pedestrian fatality here is 40% the fault of whichever insane engineer put the library parking lot across a 4-lane road from the library but refused to put a crosswalk there or implement any sort of traffic calming because that would inconvenience drivers”.

      • @Chee_Koala@lemmy.world
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        111 months ago

        While many accidents do involve fault, there are scenarios where an accident can occur without anyone being legally at fault (mechanical failure, natural disasters). It does excludes malicious intent though. in the specific context of commercial motor vehicle regulations in the US, the term “accident” is defined in the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) under 49 CFR § 390.5

        • N-E-N
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          111 months ago

          Good point, so does Accidents exclude “accidental crashes with fault”

  • @Snapz@lemmy.world
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    1711 months ago

    And doesn’t his newest atrocity, long overdue and underdelivered/overpriced, also have a front end like a knife?

  • @set_secret@lemmy.world
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    5311 months ago

    i know many of you all just LOVE to hate on Tesla, it’s like the shit flavor of he year for hating and no doubt Elon’s shit fuckery is partially driving it, but honestly this is an absolutely classic Forbes piece of garbage. Firstly, it’s a masterclass in selective bias - focusing solely on Tesla while barely whispering about Ram’s near-similar accident rates. Classic move to sensationalize one brand over another. Then there’s the U.S. only scope, which conveniently ignores the global context which could paint a vastly different picture. The article kicks off with a ‘non-causal’ disclaimer but then spends the rest of the time subtly linking Tesla’s Autopilot to the high accident rate, without concrete evidence. It’s a bit like saying ‘no offense’ before offending someone.

    The Tesla recall is mentioned, sneakily implying a connection to the accident rate, despite the lack of direct correlation. The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.

      • Zoolander
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        -1911 months ago

        They’re not, though. Elon can suck it but my Tesla is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned and it’s not even close.

        • Bizzle
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          1211 months ago

          I heard that you don’t even have to open the door, you just slide in through a panel gap

        • @Death@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Are you comparing with other cars at the same price range or cheaper cars?

          I don’t know but based from my experience(since you also commented based on your experience), compared to some other brands although Tesla are better than some cheaper models of other brands, some are better than Tesla if you compared to the models with the same price range

          Yes, some brands might be worse, but Tesla is not quite considered as being the best

          • Zoolander
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            -211 months ago

            Some cheaper, some the same price range.

            What’s your experience based on? Do you own one? Or is this just third-hand?

            I don’t care what it’s considered. It’s the best car I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned Fords, Dodges, VWs, Toyotas, and BMWs.

        • @whoisearth@lemmy.ca
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          311 months ago

          Ah yes a personal anecdote is 100% more valid.

          That said, from what I’ve heard the big problem is the disparity of build quality. Some Tesla’s (like possibly yours) are built amazing. Some others are put together like shit.

          • Zoolander
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            -111 months ago

            At least I provided some kind of evidence, even if it’s an anecdote. You made a generalization with absolutely no evidence.

            That’s fine if there’s a disparity but it’s not as common as your statement makes it seem.

          • gian
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            311 months ago

            Which is basically true for every brand, not only Tesla.

            • @whoisearth@lemmy.ca
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              11 months ago

              Every brand isn’t evangelized in the same way the cult of Elon pushed their golden goose. They’re run of the mill or worse than industry averages.

              https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

              https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2022-us-initial-quality-study-iqs

              Couple this with the ridiculous price point on the vehicles and you have apple cars so to that point I can understand the delusional obsession with the brand and supporting it

              • gian
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                111 months ago

                Every brand isn’t evangelized in the same way the cult of Elon pushed their golden goose.

                Maybe, but ask an Alfa Romeo fans about the brand… they are way worse than the Tesla fans… 😉

                They’re run of the mill or worse than industry averages.

                Look, I can tell way worse things about Renault if I look at how my car came out, so ? And I would concede that Tesla is pretty new to mass producted cars. During the years I found many quality problems also with brand that are even more evangelized and have a way longer history.

                Couple this with the ridiculous price point on the vehicles and you have apple cars so to that point I can understand the delusional obsession with the brand and supporting it

                In Italy, a couple of models (Y and 3) are pretty much aligned with other brand’s cars of the same category, so they don’t seems to be that expensive. Or the other brands are too expensive.

        • @linearchaos@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          but my Tesla is the best ve

          Sadly, you’ll never be able to say anything nice about any Musk properties here without massive downvotes by people who wouldn’t purchase anything from Musk.

          The hardware (occasional bad quality control aside) is pretty awesome. My neighbor has one, His holiday update was an absolute hoot. They’re fast, clean, comfortable and are generally long lasting, low maintenance cars.

          When you factor in EV and Price, there’s nothing that stands out as nicer from a pure hardware standpoint.

          They could use a few more buttons inside. When they become disabled on the road, their requirement for you to have them do the towing and taking hours to do so sucks. Suing people over selling their vehicles second hand is pretty bad. No second party repairs allowed is a problem.

          The real 800 lb gorilla in the room is the autopilot. The only redeemable thing about the auto pilot is that it mostly works and it’s pushing the tech forward. They have enough money to lobby congress to make it legal, all those 730+ wrecks and *42+ deaths as horrible as they are, will lead us to the feature being viable eventually.

          *edit: found a newer source

          • Zoolander
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            411 months ago

            I bought mine way before Musk became a right-wing nutjob asshole and wouldn’t buy another of his cars now unless something changed with their leadership structure.

            That doesn’t mean that I can retroactively say the car sucks now. It is a fantastic vehicle. I don’t use Autopilot so that part doesn’t apply (tried it during a trial and wasn’t impressed) but, as a car, I have no qualms.

              • Zoolander
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                211 months ago

                Probably a bit of both. Before the hair plugs, he probably did want to help the world. Now he just wants to help himself.

    • GhostalmediaOP
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      411 months ago

      To be fair, Tesla / Musk spend a LOT of time talking about how they’re autonomous driving product are critical for reducing accidents and saving lives. Also, there isn’t a lot of public quantitative data around this major recall. That’s why they’re getting the headline.

      Maybe autopilot is great, and it’s the non-autopilot drivers that are terrible, but right now, the brand has net accident rate that rivals a company that sells massive rolling blind spots to people who love Calvin pissing stickers.

    • Lev_Astov
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      11 months ago

      Last time a garbage clickbait hit-piece like this pissed me off, I looked into the crash statistics myself and found Tesla vehicles were around 1/80th the average crash ratio per capita.

      I’m sure this is somewhat skewed by the kinds of people driving them versus the average work vehicles and clunkers out there, but still, it just feels absurdly false to claim Teslas even approach the highest crash rate.

      And even the sketchy “study” not even endorsed by the site it’s posted to, then linked by Forbes, then says Ram vehicles as the highest crash rate (lol), so it’s wild that Forbes goes on to say it’s Tesla at the top spot.

      • @argarath@lemmy.world
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        611 months ago

        Comparing with the per capita means nothing here, you need to compare with other car companies, as comparing to the per capita is like comparing the number of lung cancer deaths to the number of all deaths, of course it’s going to be a very small number, but when you compare with other cancers then you can see that lung cancer is one of biggest killers amongst cancers

    • @NZV65572@lemmy.world
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      111 months ago

      Thank you. This is exactly right, it’s a hit piece designed to get people who already don’t like Tesla all worked up… and it worked remarkably well.

  • Fake4000
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    11 months ago

    Because a bunch of idiots take their hands off their steering wheel and think Elmo’s car is 100% safe.

  • Sirico
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    2511 months ago

    People are allowed cars they don’t have skills to use.

    • Phoenixz
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      1211 months ago

      Quite frankly, driving skills standards in the entire American continent are a joke to begin with. I’ve seen current requirements in Canada (“Wut?” bad), united states (teehehehehe bad) and Mexico (the aristocrats joke bad) and I know going south it only gets worse.

      I got my driver’s license 25 years ago in the Netherlands and had to take classes for a number of months, learn an entire book of rules, had a one bour theory exam where typically only 60-70% would pass at the first try, then I had to take 30 hours of practical lessons with an instructor in a special car, and take a practical exam with an examiner where the rulr is pretty much “one mistake and you’re out”. I learned how to drive in rain, what to look out for, hoe to drive in show, how to manage losing control of your car, etc etc etc… I was instilled with andeaddaly respect for what s car is and what it can do in seconds to ruin lives for good.

      Comparing that ti anything they teach today in the Americas, it’s just a sad joke.

      • @dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        My drivers ed class in new england pretty much focused only on educating teenagers about how brutally dangerous drunk driving is. It was frustrating at the time because I felt like I didn’t even learn how to drive but given how where I grew up as a teenager you had to go drink in sketch places which usually involved driving (what a dumb way to structure society ughh) because of the car hellscape I grew up in…. I honestly think those drivers ed teachers spent their time well.

        Driving a car isn’t so hard so long as you take the perspective that you have one rule, don’t hit other people and always remind yourself that you can’t assume other drivers will do anything they should on the road. Drunk driving was VERY hard not to do as a bored teenager trying to hang out with other bored teenagers. I could have died, my friends could have died. Idk, so I can’t be too upset at my drivers ed class in retrospect.

      • Tarquinn2049
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        111 months ago

        In Canada we still have to pass a practical test that covers that stuff with pretty strict requirements for passing. Just how you gain the knowledge and ability to pass that test is up to you. It’s pretty normal to take a driver’s Ed class if your friends or family don’t have time to trach you themselves. And the drivers Ed class is what you described as what is mandatory in the Netherlands. We just don’t put people through it automatically if they have already learned all that somewhere else.

        Having said that, there are some small towns that are known as places to go if you want an easier driving test, as they just don’t have enough things around to properly represent everything you should know while driving. But if it turns out you do actually suck at driving, you’ll lose your tiny amount of demerits on your beginners license pretty fast and then you are legally required to pass a driver’s Ed and defensive driving class before being able to reclaim your license. It’s not perfect, and I do think the one major thing we are missing is periodic re-testing. In Canada people are a little less resistant to “greater good” social policies, but there is still resistance. It’s tough to pass stuff that lowers or is perceived to lower freedoms, but they do still occasionally pass.

        And as I’m sure is the problem everywhere, people want all kinds of services, they just don’t want the government to have the money to pay for those services. And also they only want the services they personally currently benefit from, everything else can be cut until they personally need it, then it was a tragedy that no one stood up for it.

      • @hardcoreufo@lemmy.world
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        111 months ago

        That doesn’t sound all that different from where I learned in Maryland. You had to go to a class for a few months that had both theoretical and practical portions. You had to do 40 hours of supervised driving outside of class with an adult. The 40 hours covered a range of situations. Then there was a driving test. Which I passed fine for the car but failed for a motorcycle because I started about a foot back from the stop sign on the course so I didn’t pull up and stop at it. Doh.

        • Phoenixz
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          211 months ago

          Adult being a friend or family member? I’ve heard about that, and it always struck me as strange, as people aren’t driving instructors, driving instructors are driving instructors.

          • @hardcoreufo@lemmy.world
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            111 months ago

            I think it was somewhere around 6 to 10 hours with a certified instructor. The 40 with an adult was yeah a family member or friend. The quality definitely depended on the adult. My parents took it seriously and made sure we completed the lessons, but I had friends whose parents just signed the form without providing the additional instruction. It was 20 years ago so details are fuzzy.

          • @EtherWhack@lemmy.world
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            111 months ago

            In California, the first 20hr or so, it had to be a licensed instructor if you were under 18. An adult would just need to register for a learner’s permit and just need any licensed driver in the front passenger seat

  • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】
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    11 months ago

    Oh fuck off lending tree. Made up nonsense.

    Edit: Why am I getting downvoted? Oh, Tesla bad? Yeah, Tesla bad. LendingTree bad too. It’s spin and propaganda for the mortgage industry. They publish clickbait “research” using non scientific metrics to reach whatever conclusion they set out to reach, usually it’s just shitting on blue states. They frequently reach the opposite conclusions of credible researchers with no explanation as to why they created their own formulas when perfectly valid, standard formulas exist.

  • @EpicFailGuy@lemmy.world
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    -511 months ago

    NPC drivers. In the 90s it was Toyotas, then entry level Nissans took over in the mid 2000s … And now we got Tesla

  • Andy
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    311 months ago

    While I love to jump on the anti-Elon bus, I have to query: the highest accident rates, or highest accident rates as a percentage of vehicles on the road? If you have 10 Tesla cars on the road, and there are 2 MGs on the road, and 2 Telsas and one MG crashes, then what? 20% of Tesla vs. 50% of MG, but also that could be framed as ‘double the number of Teslas crash compared to MGs’ or ‘Tesla has the highest accident rate of any auto brand’.

    • @OrteilGenou@lemmy.world
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      Good question

      Tesla drivers had 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers. Ram (22.76) and Subaru (20.90) were the only other brands with more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers for every brand.

  • @calypsopub@lemmy.world
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    011 months ago

    I don’t know how many of these collisions are with pedestrians, but I have nearly stepped out in front of one twice just because they’re so quiet.