gian

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Joined 3 years ago
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Cake day: July 6th, 2023

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  • No, I was pointing out that there are things EU can decide to do that make points that are behind AfD rising moot. Which is the solution if we want to solve the problem and not just hide it.

    Up until politicians do not understand that AfD (like the far right wing parties in general) are the effect and not the cause, AfD and the like will continue to rise.

    AfD has a xenophobic narrative ? Yes, of course. But they was also offered an easy target.
    Let’s be real: if there would not be all these illegal immigrant in our cities (I am sure that the problems we have near the Milano Central Station are common in many cities) AfD would not have a target. If we had done something when all the jobs were moved to cheaper countries they would not have a target. The rich are getting richer because we are allowing them to do so.(*)

    True, there would always be some fascist around, stupid people would always exist, but they would be just a small group of fanatics that are irrelevant like the dozens of other parties (never hear about the Popolo della Famiglia italian party for example ?) that get 0.something % votes at the elections.

    Silencing them it’s like sweeping dust under the rug: sure, you can’t see it, but the dust is still there and sooner or later it will come to bite you.

    (*) BTW, thinking that all the problems are caused by the rich getting richer is the same thing that thinking that all the problems are caused by immigration: it is false. Both of these thing are aspects of the same problem, not the cause per se.



  • Maybe because immigration was left unchecked for years and ended up creating ghettos, zones where it is impossible for people (especially women) to go after a certain time and zones where you walk surrounded by illegal immigrant that live by petty crimes (look at the Milano Central Station for example).

    In the end people notice it and started to change the attitude from “they need help” to “they are criminal and we don’t need them”.

    The sad thing is that this way we do not discriminate anymore between the legal immigrants, those who are integrated work and contribute to the society, and the illegal immigrant that are often just here thinking they can violate any law without consequences.
    While people generally had no problems with the legal immigrants, once the illegal immigrants become a problem the distinction mostly was gone and people started to look to all immigrants as a problem.

    Note that often also the legal immigrants do not want the illegal immingrants because (and that was told me by more the one legal immigrants) “when they [the illegal immigrants] cause problems, people look also at us as problems” and I agree that it is not fair to them (the legal immigrants) to be treated this way since often they work harder then us.



  • They are hoping to shut down AfD while staying in power.

    Then they are even more stupid…

    On an EU level, we cant really do more than this but its the least that needs to happen.

    Oh, yes, we can do way more.
    Think about to impose some sort of limitation to indiscriminate immigration, think about stopping to try to punish the members that do not accept illegal immigrants, think about starting to work to preserve the industries and workplace in Europe, think about how to make outsourcing production less cost-effective for those who do it.
    There are a lot of thing EU can do if they want.


  • You mean the problem that almost all media is controlled by right-wing billionaires?

    Maybe in the US this is true, not here

    yes, thats big problem. But it’s good to at least take away some power from the party

    No, you are not taking away some power from them, you are simply giving them more “weapons”. It would not be that difficult to frame this as “look, they want to silence us because we talk about $PROBLEM they caused”








  • I am not nitpicking specifics. I only said that if you think that Giorgia Meloni is fascist then we have a bigger problem with people like Vannacci and the like which are way far right then her.

    It is true that her party, Fratelli d’Italia, is an evolution of Alleanza Nazionale which was itself an evolution of the old Movimento Sociale Italiano but, as I said, to define them fascist is a long shot, if you think what was the fascist party.

    Moreover our Constitution forbid (XII disposizione) would have forbid it





  • Wealth taxed are usually tied to the residence or citizenship of the owner, not where a company is headquartered.

    True. But there are 2 things to consider:

    • residence and citizenship are not hard to change
    • often what is view as personal wealth is nothing more than a bank loan guaranteed by the share in the company/companies, so basically the wealth is debt.

  • To me, I think they have spent years and years coordinating (not just in Germany) with other right-wing parties, tried and tested propaganda mechanics, nailed the language, the target audience, sold the product properly and their target audience responded.

    Which is what any party should do, they did nothing new or strange, they simply listen to the people and offered solutions (which would not necessary work or be realizable) occupying a space other parties decided to abandon.


  • Good luck moving your entire business, real estate and other fixed assets abroad very quickly. Have fun paying all those exit taxes. Because those already exist in a lot of places.

    Companies could be moved pretty quickly, and once you move the company headquarter, most of the job is done, the business don’t need to move, simply the money generated goes somewhere else. Real problem could be the real estate, but that is solvable.
    Personal wealth ? Movable without too much trouble.
    It not quick in every aspect but it is doable.

    And that all is implying you want to leave over a wealth tax in the first place because something tells me you won‘t.

    I think this depend on where you live.
    In Norway probably you are right but we had other examples where rising tax on the rich ended with the rich fleeing the country. In EU there are countries that are “at war” over the retirees, trying to offer better taxation to attract them (basically because they know that even if they pay less taxes, living there they spend money anyway), so maybe it is not completely false that people would go where the taxes are lower.