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If you can’t save it, its not yours. Sail the seas.
Or buy it on physical media. More and more studios are pulling their disks and it is getting harder to find. If you have a disk, it can never be recalled.
technically you dont own the disks either bro have you never read the back of a DvD box
I mean, yeah, but so what? We are talking about an article where Amazon pulled a video someone purchased down so they can never watch it again. I have never heard of a company recalling physical media and demanding it’s return.
This is a non-story.
“Who knew $EvilCo would fuck me over for a sub-$10 profit?!”
I never stopped stealing media, and I never will.
You can’t steal media unless you steal the medium.
Copyright infringement is a crime you might commit but by its draconian length, most cases are the public taking back what’s rightfully ours.
Superman II (any version) should be in the public domain.
you can’t steal media, it’s still there but just copied over.
Sucks for online games though…
Amazon’s Music service, while it takes some hoops to jump through, actually does let you download music. Though I don’t know if that’s a general policy or on a per music/per artist basis.
and save outside of their app as a non DRM’ed file because otherwise its extra hoops for the same problem
Everything should allow you to download what you purchased. The fact that the music industry has pushed streaming so goddamn hard is because they’re mad that people can still download MP3s.
And above all of this, let’s not forget that a major negotiating point of the Hollywood strike was getting residuals per stream, something that never existed when people actually had their own media. It’s greed on every single side in that corrupt, hell town and I’m at the point where I don’t even watch TV or movies any more, not only because it all sucks, but because of this bullshit. The greed and the corruption needs to be punished.
Why is owning sth you might watch once every 10 years so important? I don’t care about it, as long as it isn’t some niche content or stuff I watch every year.
Because paying actual money for something that can be taken away with the changing of ever shifting IP ownership and steaming rights is a giant waste of money.
I disagree. Like I said, I don’t need to ‘own’ something I rarely use. I’m fine just borrowing it for a couple of days as well.
Remember, streaming only has a business model as long as it has a better user experience than piracy. That’s why iTunes took off in the era of Napster. When a streaming service’s user experience drops below that of digging up pirate treasure off a shitty ad-ridden torrent site, that service is not long for the world.
I cancelled Netflix and prime and went back to piracy a few months ago, it’s been a nice blast from the past
I’m about ready to do the same.
I bought a raspberry pi, a SATA SSD and usb adaptor, and installed Plex now I’m the new netflix for my family, they send me movies and shows they want to watch and I put them on there, then they connect to my server and watch
It’s been really good
Netflix will also be raising prices soon. Again.
It’s easy to scoff at this whole “You will own nothing, and you will be happy” phrase, but it’s really gone too far already.
I’m really tired of hearing “you don’t own it you own a license to it” like it’s some revelation for people complaining. We’re aware that the system has been constructed to benefit media companies at the expense of consumers.
To be honest; I never really bought the argument anyway. From a legal standpoint I don’t give half a shit. From a layman’s standpoint it’s bullshit. Nowhere do they use terms like “rent” or “lease”. They explicitly use terms like “buy” and it’s not until the fine print that the term license even comes up.
They know they’re pissing on you and telling you it’s raining and the goobers doing their legwork by repeating the sentence like they just came up with it annoy me to no end.
Nowhere do they use terms like “rent” or “lease”. They explicitly use terms like “buy” and it’s not until the fine print that the term license even comes up.
This! It really should be illegal to present something with the phrasing “buy” unless it is provided to you via a license that prevent it from being withdrawn. To “sell” cloud hosted media without having the licensing paperwork in place for it to be a sale is fraud.
Yeah, I understand that hearing the same simple explanation of “you don’t own it…” gets to be annoying. Especially in places like this where most people are pretty well aware of the situation.
The primary issue seems to be that enough people support this type of service willingly for the sake of convenience and are generally ignorant to the potential long-term issues. It feels pretty exploitative as a consumer.
But I don’t see how making the distinction between ownership of the content vs the license is providing legwork for those services. In my mind, that distinction is key for understanding that the service is not for me. And I may just be looking at this too optimistically, but I would hope the same would be true for users who don’t read the fine print, or happen to have not understood the issue until something like this post is presented.
This sounds worse than communism. At least communism said “everyone will own everything”.
We’ve been screaming about it for 20+ years now and no one seems to be listening.
I’m hoping that someone will tie digital ownership rights to a block chain sooner or later and offer me movies, music, games and books that I can actually own resale rights to - but as publishers are already drinking from the rent-seeking model teat where every single license is a new sale I’m not terribly optimistic about that particular future.
block chain
No. Never. Stop asking. Crypto is not a currency and blockchain is a solution in search of a problem.
Well put
Adding blockchain into the mix changes nothing. Whether your digital ownership is stored in their centralized database or a distributed database, they still have control over everything because they’re the ones streaming it to you. They can just as well block your access & block resale.
The only way to actually digitally own something is to have a full DRM-free copy of it (ianal though this still might not be enough to allow resale).
Adding blockchain into the mix changes nothing. Whether your digital ownership is stored in their centralized database or a distributed database, they still have control over everything because they’re the ones streaming it to you. They can just as well block your access & block resale.
So you push digital goods to a robust public platform like IPFS and tie decryption to a signed, non-revokable, rights token that you own on a block chain. It’s a transparent and consumer friendly model compared to what we accept now. I know people are over block chain hype but this type of publishing model is where it’s actually useful.
Transferable digital rights tokens and chain of custody are places where block chain tech actually works.
Edit: People seem really hung up on crypto as currency which I’m not asking for at all. I’m asking for control, ownership and resale rights to digital goods I’ve paid for which isn’t possible at all on current digital publishing platforms. I appreciate that people hate crypto shit, that’s fine, but at least read the content you’re replying to.
So you push digital goods to a robust public platform like IPFS and tie decryption to a signed, non-revokable, rights token that you own on a block chain.
What you describe is fundamentally impossible. In order to decrypt something you need a decryption key. Put that on the blockchain and anyone can decrypt it.
Even if you can, pirates would only need to buy a single decryption key and suddenly your movie might as well be freely available to download. Pirates never pay hosting fees because it’s using the same infrastructure as customers and they can’t be taken down because they’re indistinguishable from customers.
Fuck no. I ain’t paying a transaction fee each time I want to take a breath. If you don’t want to be robbed by streaming companies, blockchain is the last (or maybe not even a) thing you should consider as a solution.
Hyperbole much?
it’s quite fun to see the whole thing you want to engineer just to have an excuse to use a blockchain.
Have you ever heard of Torrents? USENET? eDonkey? Those things are more resilient than your blockchain, they’ve proved themselves by being around more than 20 years and still in use.
I think it makes sense in some areas. For example private ownership of cars is completely unsustainable in the literal sense of the word.
But when it comes to digital goods, clearly it’s all for the profit of the media cartels. There’s no justification.
You don’t own the video file. You own access to their video file, which they also don’t own, they only own the right to distribute it. If their distribution contract ends and doesn’t gets renewed, then they can’t let you access the file. At least they refunded you. This system is one of the issues with the ongoing writers and actors strikes. Amazon can decide to stop making a video available, which cuts all dividends revenues to actors and writers. So having a video available for you to watch costs money to Amazon (or Netflix or Max…) but not enough content makes users unsubscribe, so they ride that thin line for maximized revenue. This means that older movies that aren’t blockbusters get dropped in favor of new content. Now new content doesn’t means good content, remember, it needs to be as cheap as possible. Aaand this is why steaming companies are spiraling down and everything is going to shit. Filmmaking is an art form turned into an industry. But art isn’t about maximized profit, it’s about art first. But you can’t make that art without millions of dollars and that requires the art to take a step back to maximize profit, but not too far back. It’s a really big issue in the film and entertainment industry.
— I’m an IATSE local 600 camera operator.
They should be refunding in cash though, not store credit.
Depends on the contract you agreed to with Amazon.
Then they should refund you. Even in the event that’s the case, still makes me not want to risk it.
Sometimes I think I made the right decision to just get a huge harddrive and download all my favorite entertainment in drm free format. Movies, music, games, books. I saw this coming a mile away a decade ago. The only thing that will really hurt me is if/when Steam inevitably goes full corporate cucks and starts going hard on the DRM locking down my library.
Gift card. GIFT CARD! Those bastards “refund” with gift card instead of actual money! I hope EU will haunt their asses. Big corpro hunting season is open.
“Sorry we fucked you over on your previous purchase, but here, as compensation we’re giving you the illustrious privilege of spending money with us again!”
Nope, even in EU the only option is a gift card (or a coupon) if you need to reinburse someone if more that a certain time is passed (usually about a week). There are fiscal reasons to this.
They removed books from your Kindle in the past. Who could have seen this comming?
Yeah seriously. The day news of this broke, I switched my book library over to Calibre+DeDRM and put my device in airplane mode.
Wow. This is why owning DVDs is better. And if you can’t buy, download via torrents. Imagine these bastards rolling up to your home and reclaiming a movie you physically purchased. We gave them too much power. Time to withdraw it. Convenience is not worth this shit. Get uncomfortable and get your entertainment away from these streamers who don’t give customers what they paid for.
DVD rental stores could surely make a comeback given these new developments. Libraries still loan movies as well. Remember, Barnes & Noble didn’t run all independent bookstores out of business. And after Amazon savaged Barnes & Noble, Amazon Books suddenly came into existence (2015 - 2022). Greed driven corporations aren’t the answer.
Digital is the way to go - who knows how long DVD will be a viable format. Hard media formats come and go.
DVD is digital, lol. And nothing stops you from dumping entire DVD.
It still comes down to choosing convenience over not being taken advantage of. Building a computer, for example, has many benefits over buying one. It’s a matter of what a person places value on.
Why follow corporations’ timelines for obsolescence? I’m sure if they could erase the technology of media players from people’s minds, corporations would. Best to keep people completely hooked up and dependent on their “services” so they can be milked of their money continuously.
As long as the method and means to play the media is available, physical is my preference. Vinyl, CDs, DVDs. Cassettes and VHS quality over time leaves much to be desired and is the only reason why I wouldn’t add them to the list.
These aren’t dependent on a network, internet, cloud. Own forever, build and repair.
blu-rays are often as cheap or cheaper than “digital copies”, and ripping them to my NAS is pretty trivial these days thanks to makemkv.
the best part is, uncle jeff cannot legally break into your house and take back the disc just because of some petty rights issue.
I recently bought a 4k Blu-ray player. My brother asked me if I also bought a fax machine because streaming is “where it’s at” . Nah My 4k player cleans up DVDs really nice where streaming has artifacts and banding. Not only is it true ownership but a better quality.
4k streaming is also way lower quality than a 4k blu-ray
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That is misinformation. The quality disparity you’re both pointing out is from streaming services compressing their media to much lower bitrates to ease bandwidth stress on their servers/clients and has nothing to do with a physical or digital medium.
lower bitrate == lower quality when using the same compression algorithms.
most streaming services are using h.265, same as 4k blu ray, but at substantially lower bitrates
streaming dolby vision profiles are also gimped considerably compared to blu-ray dolby vision
Doubling down on the misinformation, I see. H.265 is a high-efficiency codec, or in other words a better compression standard. Not a static compression level. This is why when you convert media there’s an input for quality, even when using HEVC. And you can absolutely stream the same Dolby Vision profile as a Blu-ray with single track double layer.
You’re still conflating digital medium with streaming services.
i am more than well aware of all of this. nothing i said is misinformation. same algorithm, different settings. the primary means by which you reduce bitrate with h.265 is by reducing the quality setting. there is no magical way to cut your bitrate by 75% using the same compression algorithm without sacrificing quality. no commercial streaming service is offering video at the same quality level as a 4k blu-ray.
few streaming boxes even support dolby vision profile 7, and no commercial streaming service offers it. so saying you can get it through a streaming service is actual misinformation.
i have literally been doing this shit for 20 years
i am more than well aware of all of this. nothing i said is misinformation
Your entire presupposition that Blu-ray quality is better than streaming quality by default is misinformation, and I’ve already explained why.
no commercial streaming service is offering video at the same quality level as a 4k blu-ray.
What does that have to do with digital media?
This is also demonstrably untrue if you take 5 seconds to research self-hosted streaming services.
few streaming boxes even support dolby vision profile 7, and no commercial streaming service offers it
Plex on Nvidia Shield. EZPZ.
there is no magical way to cut your bitrate by 75% using the same compression algorithm without sacrificing quality
I never said anything in contradiction to this. I don’t know who you’re shadow-boxing.
I just bought a big ass TV, and I’ve just started buying discs for movies I truly want to own for a few reasons.
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You own it, period.
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Even if you trust Amazon, do you trust your ISP to stream 4K reliably on demand? I don’t. Fuck Comcast.
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A physical collection just kind of looks nice, especially if you fork out for Steelbooks and only buy your favorites. Steelbooks on eBay are like ~$30.
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Hey! Don’t point that out or they’ll add it to the TOS!
Can’t have shit in the cloud
You know where Amazon (and any other company for that matter) can’t pull content from? My Jellyfin instance. Yo-ho-ho!
Skull joke? 😂
True. But your jellyfish instance only really works for you and a few trusted friends/neighbors. I would still like a comprehensive library that I can browse and select from at a moment’s notice.
The infuriating nature of Amazon / Hollywood / IP law / etc, is that these two combined goals are inimicable to the profit motive. I can’t have access to a big public library of continent, because that means someone else won’t be able to collect the real-time maximal market-rate from me to access it.
Shit happens. Tech breaks. You forget where you leave things. People outside your social circle (people you’ll never know existed) will want access to that same media at some future date. And Jellyfin doesn’t get them that.
But your jellyfish instance only really works for you
Yes, and that’s the whole point of it. It works even if my internet access goes down, and kids are screaming for their cartoons. Peace of mind.
Yeah that’ll happen for anything streamed and licensed.
If you want to own something, you need to own it physically. Buy an actual disk. People won’t and I’ll be surprised if they are still making blurays at all in ten years but that’s the only way you can actually buy media now.
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If people suddenly collectively understood they’re paying for basically nothing it would probably spur large-scale revolution.
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All those tv junkies would have to get off of their couches though
He received what he paid for and then got his money back
I think people already understand this, they just don’t care as long as their devices play the media they want to consume.
I think you are too optimistic on this.
Digital goods are just not physical goods, you don’t really own them - which also mean you can’t really steal them.
Yep that’s why I don’t understand all those people with Kindles and huge Amazon book collections. They can literally take it all away on a whim. If I want to own a book I’ll purchase a physical copy, but ebooks? High seas for me. I feel like a ‘free’ ePub in my Dropbox is safer than whatever proprietary format in my Amazon account.
Edit - getting mostly replies defending ebooks and stating disadvantages of physical books (also, yeah I know books “aren’t for showing of” lol, like that’s the only reason for owning a book).
Just want to add I have both and get their pros and cons. I read tons on my ereader too, just not a Kindle because fuck that closed system, it’s not for me (for reasons mentioned above).
Yep that’s why I don’t understand all those people with Kindles and huge Amazon book collections.
It’s convenient, that what most people care about. But yeah, convincing people that making a copy of something you arguably own is a crime - that is some next level gaslighting on societal level.
I always thought the idea of IP laws punishing you for copying a file based on lost revenue, when you never would have bought it in the first place anyway, to be a bit off. You only got it because it was free.
If you need an account to play it, it’s just not yours to enjoy it.
Same with games. One day a purchase vanished off my PlayStation library, and I must have deleted the email cause it was an old purchase. I still have the save files but they won’t refund or give me back the game cause it vanished off their records
