I bought byd stock. It keeps going down. I will never understand investing
I don’t get how a company is losing this much in multiple countries yet is still operating?
Like if they can lose this much and still be operating and investments not tanking, would it follow that they can pay better wages and benefits?
I don’t think Musk much cares or ever did. The goal was to milk tesla for every last dime.
He didn’t care so much he bawled on trump’s shoulder and got him to buy one.
That was for show. And not to fix the underlying problems. If he cared, he would actually find and fix the problems.
finally some good news.
My commute is about 20 miles a day. Charging level 1 at work is enough unless I go out on the weekend. My Nissan Leaf has been good enough for me. And it is neither Tesla nor Chinese.
My only gripe with that car is that it looks really bland. Then again I am no James Dean where I sit with two kids seats with the back full of shopping
Good thing the Tesla board voted to give Elmo all those billions to make him stay, because for a second there was an actual risk that Tesla could survive as a company without Elmo, but now they kept him and made sure they’ll all go down off that cliff.
There is no way I would tickle him!
Any non-cunts in the EV manufacturing space? Or is that a prerequisite?
Hyundai has been pretty good. And I only hear good things about Rivian and Lucid.
I have a Chevy Bolt EUV. Maybe it’s still cunty. But I’m pretty sure it better than China spyware or a Nazi.
I’m genuinely surprised people be ok with BYD on Lemmy. It’s authoritarian spyware, period. There are more options than these two - ww don’t have to choose the lesser evil.
when compared with elon’s nazi spyware?
There are more than 2 options here.
We’re in a thread that directly compares Tesla and BYD. Thankfully there are other EV manufacturers.
Why would someone who doesn’t live in China give a shit about Chinese spyware, especially when the alternative is any of the big US/EU manufacturers who happily hand your information to your own government?
China can’t do shit to yall. I’d include myself in there, but I quite enjoyed my time in China and intend to return, so Chinese spyware could actually be a threat to me.
enemy of my enemy shit, I suppose.
Why would I give a fucking shit? Every new car is a piece of shit spy ware device that collects and sells your data. Honestly, I’d rather china have my data than a fucking capitalist company or America. At least china won’t do anything to me, our government is more of a threat to the average American than china is.
What a defeatist take.
Lemmy has always been retarded
Lemmy has always been retarded like that.
Can always count on slurs from people who imagine tankies behind every rock.
Do you carry a cell phone?
I pick the cheapest.
Both cars support oppressive dictators, but one is cheaper, supports CarPlay / Android auto, and has actually buttons for things.
BYD cars don’t have very many buttons either. See here. They’re tablets on wheels too. I quite dislike BYD interiors.
True, but that thing is like a fighter jet compared to Telsa’s void of emptiness. 14 controls on the wheel (and they’re labeled), real controls for drive modes, there are basic climate controls on the center console, you can manually adjust fan orientation, etc.
It’s still overly reliant on touch, but I’d easily take that over a Telsa.
Meh. I would not take either. In fact I actually didn’t. I went to a showroom and got inside their EVs and PHEVs while looking for a car. My immediate reaction after sitting in the driver’s seat of their PHEV was “I don’t want to drive this”. Same thing with the pure EV. I’ll give you the wheel, but those A/C controls next to the “shifter” are touch surfaces instead of actual buttons, and they’re just as annoying and worthless as touchscreen controls. Which is sad because those cars have fantastic stats on paper and very competitive prices. Unfortunately most EVs on the market have fucking stupid interior designs. Very often you have to choose between affordable and well designed. Not very many that are both.
In the end I decided not to buy a new car at all. Still got my 2015 Leon.
I am not sure you can say BYD supports a dictator per se, more like it exists in a state capitalist country where you exist at the behest of the dictator.
Elon actively pushed and spent money to get trump elected.
Well played sir, well played.
Come on Canada, let us have cheap BYD, fuck the US economy.
nah, forget about them
let us have economical cars because we don’t need these massive expensive things just to go 5km to get a load of groceries
Let us have safe bicycle infrastructure do that we can bike to those stores, how about that? And with that, add mixed constructions in the suburbs so that people have small local stores around.
A bike costs a fraction of a car
Bicycle infrastructure building and maintenance costs a fraction of that for cars
Bicycles don’t emit CO2. And for those wise asses saying that the cyclist does, it’s a fraction of a fraction of a car because you’re not lugging 2 tonnes of stell around to transport you and a bottle of milk.
Cycling infrastructure is much more efficient, you can push a shit tonne more people over the same road if you don’t need big ass cars. Yes, even your Mercedes smart car is I ass compared to a bicycle
It creates much much less pollution from tire dust
It’s much safer, bicycles kill only a fraction of the people that cars kill all year round
It’s healthier, people do exercise not because they went to the gym, but all day every day with their bikes
It cuts the noise pollution
It’s cheaper because no taxes, no gas needed, maintenance is a fraction of that of a car.
It’s way less wasteful
It lowers aggression. Though it may or may not exist, I’ve never heard of bicycle road rage
Need more?
Less cars is less parking spaces. Parking spaces get cities barely any taxable income. Instead of these ugly ass concrete wasteland parkitsoaces you can now have restaurants with outside patios which can be taxed. Couple that with the cheaper infrastructure, and that alone should be an obvious reason as to why do this
It’s really not that much slower. For typical short trips, bicycles usually only add some 10-20% of required time to your trip.
For any trip over say, 5-10 kilometers, use good public transportation
For those once in a lifetime trips where you actually need a car because you need to transport something huge, use one of those Evo rent-a-car.
In the Netherlands, a huge amount of people don’t have a car. Not because they can’t (they totally can) but because it’s stupid to have one. You can go everywhere by bike, you can jump with your bike in a train when needed to go further, cars are expensive and bad for everyone, why even have one?
Let us have safe bicycle infrastructure do that we can bike to those stores, how about that? And with that, add mixed constructions in the suburbs so that people have small local stores around.
Not everyone live in a big city where there is everything you need in terms of grocery and services.
Living in a small city, I can walk to do most of my day by day routine, but I need a car to be able to go where there are services/shops that are not present. And being a small city the public transportation or every solution where you just rent the car/bike/whatever to use a couple of hours are not really present since it is not economically sustainable (too few people spreaded on a relatively too big area)
🤣🤣🤣
That works in the city but i live in a remote area, and have an hour and a half round trip to work every day because its not economically viable for me to move closer.
Since I doubt Canada/BC will spend the money putting in viable public transit/high speed rail, I just want them to do the bare minimum to allow me to afford to stop burning gas to afford my next meal.
While striving for turning every small town into a walkable city sounds great and amazing on paper, the reality is it won’t happen, so we should push for baby steps in the right direction instead only focusing on the absolute ideal.
Us as well. I am disabled. One hour drive one way to the hospital. Grocery store is half an hour. A train would be awesome but they keep ripping up tracks here so that’s not likely.
I’m all for fuck the US but don’t you think Canada can make it’s own cars? Being dependent on China’s economy is no better than being dependent on the US or Europe.
While Canada making its own affordable, long range EV’s would be ideal in the long run, we literally have no canadian-owned production facilities or brands that currently can, or do produce low or mid end cars, and Canada seems to have no interest in subsidising those.
Which means, in the short run, I want a vehicle I can afford to buy that doesn’t give me range anxiety, and the only reason I can’t is because Canada literally doubled the price of the cars that currently exist that fit my requirements because the US asked them to.
Hydro Quebec invented BYD’s battery technology, the only reason they licensed it to BYD in the first place is nobody else was going to do anything with it.
Tesla vs BYD is overhyped in Europe. Car sales rose 8%. Many European brands did better than this average. Hybrid and EV growth at about 35% in Europe should be story. Fine Tesla is sucking. We get it.
I don’t know about you but I drive over 5-10km regularly. For a short miserable stretch my daily commute was 90 miles. Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike. And then there’s work tools and whatnot that many professionals keep in vehicle.
The ebike option meme is so laughable. I recently did some research on cargo bikes and the entry models cost as much as a used ICE car with no air con, no rain cover, no heating, no safety. Ebike people are straight up delusional in thinking this is ready to replace cars.
Getting a second hand ice car is objectively the best thing you can do right now for everyone involved unless you ride half a million km a year.
I’m completely out of shape and don’t exercise at all, but commuted to work on a bike when my workplace was ~5 miles away. Wasn’t hard at all and only took a little longer than a car. Had a rack on the back and bags to pick up groceries too. If you need carry a lot of heavy tools every day, it obviously wouldn’t be ideal. Even then a bicycle trailer could be used up to something like 100lbs.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn’t be any surprise they’re selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I’m immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
which basically forces people to buy them
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don’t know what you’re talking about, and “everyone’s a tankie” for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
And is even cheaper if someone else pay 30% of what you need to spend to build a car. So you can sell the car 30% less than others and still make a profit (maybe).
It is not a mystery that CCP subsidizes a lot of domestic EVs (among other things like solar panel) to become the dominant player in the market.
What would be interesting to see is what will happen after they become the dominant player.It is not a mystery how propaganda gets started.
Steel is 1/3 the price as US. Alumnium 1/2. Markets with Futures trading. There’s over 300 car companies in China. They are not all directly subsidized. There is state involved ownership (from factory building) in Steel, but they make money at market prices.
There is state involved ownership (from factory building) in Steel, but they make money at market prices.
They make money because they can write off 30% of the cost of the car being paid from someone else, in one form or another.
Chinese car factories DO NOT get a special discount on steel. You can’t just keep repeating that without source that is not also just baseless repeating of same lie.
My source is “Il sole 24 ore”, a respected finalcial newspaper in Italy.
But I am not saying the Chinese car factory get a special discount on steel. What I am saying, based on the investigation from the newspaper I cited, is that CCP pay 20 to 30 % of the total cost to build a car.
Now your sources.
Also it’s much easier to triple a small number than a big one.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real
Yes they are, but in this case you are just wrong. I guarantee you I’m not a tankie, but I think it’s pretty clear that USA has absolutely also subsidized electric cars, especially Tesla that has been generously subsidized in multiple ways, also subsidizing their charging network.
On top of that, USA has prevented a lot of outside competition with tariffs.All in all i am personally sick and tired of Americans always pointing fingers at the Chinese for doing the exact same thing Americans are doing.
Nope you are just wrong and intentionally spreading false equivalencies and making strawman arguments.
Let’s put aside for a moment the fact that I only spoke negatively about the US (the discussion was about Europe), and instead focus on the fact that the US has subsidized electric vehicles from around the world to the tune of $1B in an effort to promote the sales of clean vehicles. China has subsidized to the tune of $230B for domestic vehicles only.
Good! I‘m grateful that the CCP is stepping in where the West is ignorant. Thanks to heavy lobbying by fossil fuels and car industries we would never have affordable cars in Europe without China. Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate 🙏
LOOOOOLOLOLOL have you looked at China’s greenhouse gas contributions lately? They don’t give a fuck about the climate, they’re just trying to drive other countries out of the market.
Chinese carbon emissions may have peaked this year and they’ve deployed more renewables than the rest of the world combined.
That’s because they’re also heavily subsidizing that industry out of self-interest. That’s the “emerging markets” I mentioned above.
Which sounds like a good idea for everybody. Maybe other countries should do the same thing.
I’m no fan of West Taiwan but they’re doing a lot more to decarbonize than most other major economies.
Like always, it’s a great idea, right up until China jacks up the prices after they’ve driven out all the competition and common people can’t buy them anymore.
Then maybe western companies can finally compete with them despite being ruled by obligate capitalists.
Oh no, a country acts out of self-interest! A concept that is completely foreign to the West 😱 At least their “self-interest“ has cheaper EVs for the rest of the world as a result. What are the coeffects of the US defending their self-interests? Rise in facism? Another genocide?
You’re moving the goalposts. You were literally thanking Xi for “saving the climate”.
Once again, I am not having a pissing match about which country is better, I am discussing the success of electric vehicles from China.
Not really? Still saving the climate 🤔
Oh no! I think I left the oven on
Elon Musk: “I love ovens”
Jenson Huang; Hold my beer!
