See, Apple? Even cars can do it :)
The answer is massive government support. The cost of those stations has to be insane…imagine the inventory holding cost of those batteries
True. Over the past ten years, China has invested something like a trillion dollars into renewable energy through a combination of their state enterprises and public-private partnerships, and this is just one of the ways they’re reaping the dividends of that investment.
I think swappable batteries could be a good solution to fires and probelms seen with long term battery health. Like if batteries were smaller and you swap it out rather than charging they could be inspected before being redistributed. In an ideal situation the cost of purchasing a battery would be removed from the vehicle price and shift to a subscription/interchange system. It could help consumers if their battery goes bad by not needing to buy a completly new one and prevent fires. Unfortunately, everything is terrible and I imagine this would inevitably turn to some kind of scummy, overpriced, preditory system. I am not sure if damage caused by batteries is enough to justify such a program but I think insurance companies and governments have or will look into it.
I think an automated battery swap system would work best for OTR trucking. Pull in, battery packs swapped, off they go. The charge for much larger batteries would take longer, or at least would be better done not attached to a vehicle for maintenance or in case of thermal problems.
There’s a company doing this already. Giant battery sits behind the cab. They drive up, unplug it like a LEGO with a huge robot arm, plunk in a new one and good to go.
I think an automated battery swap system would work best for OTR trucking.
Yes, that and other commercial vehicles that put on a lot of miles in a day, every day.
Not to mention, most of these trucks are very standardized in their dimensions and parts already. This is probably the biggest thing that will hurt small vehicles is picking a subset of standardized dimensions that will fit multiple models.
When 52% of all trips made are less than 3 miles and less than 2% are over fifty miles, I don’t think battery swapping is something any individual needs on a regular basis.
I could get on board if manufacturers were making $10,000 sub 50 mile vehicles that were compatible with a swap station so you could switch to a larger battery for the weekend. This would have to be a standard adopted by all however, and even before that, they’d have to make small cars. Which they won’t, because we all know they are too busy making trucks and SUVs.
hear hear for small cars
PS: and walkable/cyclable cities
I could get on board if manufacturers were making $10,000 sub 50 mile vehicles that were compatible with a swap station so you could switch to a larger battery for the weekend. This would have to be a standard adopted by all however, and even before that, they’d have to make small cars. Which they won’t, because we all know they are too busy making trucks and SUVs.
they make $10k ev’s with 250 mile ranges that are for sale everywhere except the united states & canada. you can get them in australia or western europe for a 50-75%-ish tariff depending on which country you’re in…
Without knowing any examples of the vehicles that are for sale everywhere except, roughly, half the world, I can’t really say much them. What I can say is that compared to the monstrous subsidies the oil and gas industry recieve, it does seem like those tariffs could be done away with. At least on the face of it, perhaps the issue is more intricate than that but I’m sure you grasp my meaning.
for the united states, it’s actually pretty simple; it’s about stopping chinese control of the auto industry and protecting ford, gm & chrysler from having to innovate. here’s a short video with a high level overview of it.
52% of all trips made are less than 3 miles and less than 2% are over fifty miles
I got a Chevy Volt based on this premise, and it’s true! I barely touched my car’s ICE until I moved further out into the sticks (running away from rising rents) and even way out here most of my trips are to the grocery store or post office and don’t need it.
I was looking at the Volt a couple years ago but the only ones around were over 25k. Then I started looking for a BMW i3, but, like so many of the cheaper EVs, there’s not many for sale. It’s a shame these smaller vehicles, even a hybrid, aren’t pumped out the factories left, right, and centre.
It’d be so much safer - and quieter - in the city if smaller cars were more pervasive.
I don’t oppose the idea of battery station, but who owns the battery then? When I bought the car, am I leasing the battery? How about used car?
The company (NIO) owns them and you are leasing the batteries. The car is cheaper this way, as you don’t buy the battery up front, but pay a monthly fee (~200+ in Germany).
You have a fixed number of swaps per month, above that you have to pay extra.
Source: colleague uses a car like this and explained the details.
What if they EOL the battery and stops the leasing program? Now the perfectly fine car is non functional because it’s missing a battery. If I replace it, I’m just contributing more waste, not in materal but energy. Is that the “green” future we all after?
I’d assume you could still charge them the regular way. You’d just no longer get a fresh one, but that just puts you on par with the other EVs
The ownership is still questionable. Even if that’s the case, you’re stuck with the battery you last swapped in, which you don’t know the wear level or how long it will last.
I would guess a swappable battery would be separated from the vehicle, similar to a gas bottle for a grill.
The battery would be rented for a small deposit and on swapping you only pay the energy + service fee.
I guess you could also buy one to own, but then could not swap that.
That’s how it would make sense, at least.
I will take ownership over leasing as a 200 miles range is more than enough for me. But you will see if the leasing model works out, they will only have leasing left for you as that’s a continous money flow. Or have the battery be super expensive to discourage you buy it.
Renault tried leasing the batteries in EV in an effort to lower the initial cost of the car while increasing their tail for future owners. They abandoned it only a few years in as it was a disaster for their used market that got worse the older the car got as nobody wanted the ongoing cost. Only the initial owner saved money, and only if they managed to use PCP finance with a balloon set before Renault realised that the battery leased cars would be worth significantly less.
Renault also did not like that with older cars they would be liable for the battery replacement far sooner than they planned as they (initially) had a higher percentage unusable before they had to do a free replacement vs. a normal battery warranty, made worse as a leased battery has a warranty as long as you are paying the lease.
Renault could repossess the car if you stopped paying the battery lease and refused to buy it out. Its like any car finance that puts a lien or similar on the car, you do not own it till its gone.
It’s not just that, its what happens if you get a battery from a guy named roger who said he knows what he’s doing and fucked with it?
Battery swapping sounds great, until you put it into a real world scenario.
There are already plenty of shady car mechanics named roger who can swindle you out there…
Yea, sure but that doesn’t effect me because I have the chance to know who’s working on my car, you don’t if you habe battery swapping going on.
Not just about “who owns it?” but also how does it work with insurance if something goes terribly wrong and who will bear the responsibility?
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Tesla drivers are c*nts anyways :p Focus on proper EVs.
“Battery Station” vs. “Gas Station” should’ve been a no brainer from day one.
Next best plan should be “electric roads” that are powered by green tech.
Of course it all would be massively expensive. Sadly, it’s clear that the powers that be to protect Earth’s climate do not give a shit.
Highways could totally have power lines overhead…the problem is just finding the best way of getting it to the car safely (I don’t like the trolley-style solution).
Not sure what the “trolley style” is.
My exposure to electric roads are electro-magnetic rails under the road that provide a constant electric field that cars drive over.
Honestly, I think it may be possible to build entire roads with enough crushed metal elements in the asphalt/concrete and a slight low power charge throughout the entire surface would be able to keep any vehicle battery at a steady charge.
But, I’m not a scientist/engineer/electrical specialist, etc …
Trolly style = hooking on to an over-road power line.
Yes, I should’ve known. It was a popular thing in my area with a bus line that stopped just within the past 3 years.
No I would not. Chargers work just fine.
When a driver enters their automated station, the station will connect directly to the vehicle, drive and park it at the platform, have the depleted battery be dropped out from the bottom of the vehicle and replaced it with a fully charged battery while charging the user’s account — all within three minutes. The driver doesn’t even need to control or step out of the car.
That’s really cool, although I maintain that for urban travel the scooters with the hot-swappable battery under the seat are the ideal solution.
- Book a swap in the app
- arrive in the lineup.
- serves one car at a time like an oil change
- the station has to constantly be charging the used batteries.
Or
Install 4-6 high speed chargers in the same spot and clear more cars faster .
Essentially the swap station is only better if you arrive without a lineup. The swap takes 7-10min and is manned. If you are one or two cars deep waiting you are better to have just found a charger
Why wouldn’t you compare like situations? It appears you chose a rather well set-up charging station vs. a poorly setup swapping station.
I didn’t picture an oil change when I imagined a battery swap station, I am not sure that should be the default or starting point.
neo is the ONLY company doing swap stations, and that is how they work… I also described current, available EVs with available chargers.
True, mass parallel charging can fulfill more peak demand faster, but from the point of view of the user, it would still be good to have the option to fill/exchange the battery quickly.
An EV6 on an capable fast charger can do 10% to 80% in 17 min
They need to make the swap faster / higher throughput or charging is still going to make more sense .
One thing that would speed it up would be if you could just drop the 1-ton battery by gravity (safely, which I understant is hard on the edges of any hooks holding it, maybe they could use a raised floor, which is what they do in NIO) and snap it back on in 30s or less for a total of 2m. The rest is just your usual parking, pulling the gas hose. Maybe make it go-through so you don’t have to manouver into place.
More like install 8 to 12 DCFS at a minimum and some very busy stations have a massive amount of chargers.
My colleague has a NIO car like this, he really likes it and uses the battery swap weekly. To my knowledge they have patented the tech.
If I bought an electric car, I would definitely consider NIO, as this option is great for long trips. In EU they have a couple of swap stations in Germany, but it’s still a long way to go in other countries.
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Was waiting for Nio to make it state-side. Now, not so sure they will be allowed.
