Like y’all keep posting about it, praising it, giving it free advertisement, and what not.
But the dev is a fascist, the discord server is a fascist bar, and the project thus is fascist.
I’ve met people who were harassed, I browsed through now deleted messages of Vaxry using slurrs and more.
So I wonder is if the people who post constantly about it know and are complicit, or just don’t know and would act otherwise?
It gets tiring to see the project be given “fame” when I know the roots of the plants are founded in toxicity & abuse.
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Vaxry is not a very smart guy. He originally got a wrist slap by FDO saying don’t do your toxic shit here. Then he followed it up by going postal on the FDO mailing list. Then he put up a blog post where he was like like “SJWs are coming for me”.
https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists
The entire argument is that you can’t make an exclusionary space for people (no definition of what that means) but you should be able to call them slurs. Who would want anything to do with him? He should have gone full tilt and made a list of slurs you should be allowed to say beyond just arguing for the R-slur. That would have really convinced people he’s not an extremely toxic right wing weirdo.
https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-hyprlandsCommunity
This was his non-apology where he says “lets be real” a lot which is a common way of just ignoring a criticism and then he follows it up with, I should have banned that user instead of doing what I did.
Asking for professionalism in the OSS community is not a huge deal. It’s also quite literally not even about the code AFAIR Drew Devault is still taking Vaxry’s patches. He just doesn’t want him in the community starting shit with people.
The “paradox of tolerance” is a concept I love to bring up time and time again.
No tolerance for the intolerant, lest intolerants take over tolerant spaces and turn them intolerant.
It is a quandary.
I would not support the project monetarily because I would not want to fund the primary persons behind it.
But Hyprland is FOSS is it not? Someone could fork the project to resolve the issue you are describing.
If this does not resolve the issue in your opinion (as you seem to have concerns with the “roots” of the project), and if we go with that logic, we should be just as opposed to using the modern “Jerry” gas can as it was a Nazi invention originally.
Both good and evil people invent things - whether the thing that is invented is itself reflective or could be considered supportive of the inventors ideals varies. Nazi’s are terrible and I don’t want to support them, but at the same time I think that it is good and useful to be able to safely and effectively transport gas if needed, and I’m not so certain that function supports Nazi ideals. If I purchased the gas can from a Nazi, then it would, but nothing is being purchased in the case of Hyprland as far as I am aware.
I don’t know a tonne about Hyprland as a thing however, so my decision on whether or not to use it may also vary.
In short, you can have massive, entirely valid criticisms of the evil deeds of a person, but that does not necessarily fault everything they invent or touch, even if we would like it to. This is the crux of the Composition/Division logical fallacy if I am not mistaken, which is where we make an assumption that what is true about part of something must be applied to the rest of it without exception.
In this instance, the inventor may be evil but it does not automatically mean that their inventions are inherently evil.
If there are criticisms of Hyprland, the software itself - then it is a different matter.
I thought this was going to be a new article or news, but it’s from April 9, 2024.
I think this situation has been picked over and rehashed now to the point where anyone who was going to change their behaviour will have already done so. If there is no update on the situation then all I see is you dragging up drama from a year ago.
I don’t remember hearing about it before. I might have, but even if so the reminder is helpful.
Honestly I just stopped caring about developer’s personalities or political views. If you only use products made by nice guys who share your political views you won’t use anything in your life. Not even a phone.
You probably don’t care about my opinion, but one of the reason I don’t really care about this is that I only have the “drama” second hand from very unreliable sources. There is the Vaxry’s version of the story which cannot be trusted because that’s conflict of interest. Then there is Drew, who according to a Distrotube video is quite a bizzare person, who really enjoys to stir the drama and write these extremely misleading “hitpieces” on famous FOSS people. The issue is that to me Distrotube is not a credible source regarding this either because he’s got for me too schizo view of the world. He has a rifle collection, in case he has to fight for his country. (including a rifle, “that’s good for children”)
So it’s just too foggy for me. Well I don’t promote Hyprland because I don’t care about my computer’s “looks” and because according to some (I think) Void dev, Hyprland code is crap. But that’s a different story. Anyways my point is that I can see why people can see it as not that bad.
edit: adding sources for the Drew, Distrotube and Void stuff, in that order. Also the Drew video relies on indirect evidence but for me it’s fairly convincing.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NLHIIVppdMw
You don’t have to trust Drew, though. Vaxry is pretty clear on his stance on the subject.
if I run a discord server around cultivating tomatoes, I should not exclude people based on their political beliefs, unless they use my discord server to spread those views.
which means even if they are literally adolf hitler, I shouldn’t care, as long as they don’t post about gassing people on my server
that is inclusivity
Source: https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists
Note how this article is not where he first stated the above. This article is where he doubles down on the above statement in the face of criticism. In the rest of the article he presents nazism as an opinion people might have that you disagree with. He argues that his silent acceptance of nazis is the morally correct stance while inclusive communities are toxic actually.
This means that it’s not just Drew or the FDO who are arguing that Vaxry’s complete lack of political stance is creating safe spaces for fascists. It’s Vaxry himself that explicitly states this is happening and that it’s intentional on his part.
unless they use my discord server to spread those views
To me that’s not controversial at all and does not suggest in the slightest that he’s a fascist, National Socialist or whatever. And he isn’t creating “safe spaces” for these kind of people either. A safe space to me means a place where said people can express their (stupid) opinion freely, which Vaxry according to this statement does not support. Also I don’t have the exact quote but in a different episode of his blogpost saga he claimed that when some person was transphobic, said person was banned. So that would also be supporting evidence that he does not create safe spaces for bigots.
If we’re talking strictly hypothetically, I’m a worse person than Vaxry because unlike me, he claims not to allow bigots to express their opinions in his dicksword server, while I am engaging in communication in a Lemmy community where being a fan of Mao or Stalin is allowed.
In the rest of the article he presents nazism as an opinion people might have that you disagree with.
He didn’t say anything about Nazism being an opinion you disagree with.
He argues that his silent acceptance of nazis is the morally correct stance while inclusive communities are toxic actually.
He does argue that his stance is morally correct but what you said is not his stance. I think the following quote implies the point he’s trying to make.
It’s important to note that there are many people who disagree on topics like religion, economic systems, LGBT issues, geopolitics, and other. For whatever reasons they may, we still should not ostracize them as long as they can interact with the FOSS community in a respectful manner, without arguing about those issues in places not meant for such discussions.
I think his point is that him disallowing ostracising of people creates communities that tolerate all kinds of people including say, LGBT people. The Nazis would be collateral damage of inclusiveness, I suppose. I’m naming specifically LGBT, since in a different quote he’s talking about illegal things in Hungary, which is famously a highly LGBT-discriminating country in the EU:
I stand by my stance that even if you are something that the country I live in disagrees with, you still are free to use, contribute to, and be a part of the greater FOSS community.
Also part of his point is that just because someone claims some other person is a bigot, does not mean that’s actually true. The former person could just be lying or otherwise twisting the truth, therefore it’s important to be inclusive:
They will try and find things that you do outside of your proffessional persona, or often infer, guess, meddle with, or lie about what you say and stand for.
He didn’t say anything about Nazism being an opinion you disagree with.
This is literally the only point the article makes and there’s no point even discussing it further if you’re too blind or dishonest to admit that.
What’s Hyprland?
removed by mod
Wow, the moment someone who drives a critical opinion gets upvoted, comment gets removed
It had misinformation, Rule 2. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Find a better cause than this nothing burger. Literally nothing better to do but complain about some old discussion. God forbid you forgive and move on. No you said something that offended me years ago and I will not forgive such a terrible transgression. This 'look at me" posting is so tiring. Look at how great I am. Don’t worry everyone I’ll fall on the sword and call out the bad people.
You call man a bigot and you make a drama publicly because you can’t stand how he can have a different opinion or way of living than you, right? Guess that makes you… a bigot? 😉
I made myself a promise to donate to Hyprland and Vaxry every time I see bad press against him. And I just made another payment. He makes good software and this is something he should concentrate on and just like many others on this thread: I don’t care if he has one opinion or the other. You don’t like it? Just don’t engage with him, his Discord or Hyprland, let the guy have his space.
Or make another bad press and make me donate again, I’ll happily do that💪🏻
You also donate to the KKK? How’s your investment in anti-trans communities going so far, what’s the ROI? Happy with all the hatred you are fueling?
If you honestly throw KKK and Vaxry into the same bucket then I guess it speaks for yourself: as for me, I’m not going deeper into conversation if this is how it starts ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I didn’t do it. He did that himself, he [pretty much, in other words] said:
“I’m fine with a genocidal transphobe homophobe racist antisemite literal murderer being welcomed of my software community if he was alive now. As long as he keeps his crimes against humanity off the main focus: my project and my project alone.”
Discord fails to include a libre software license text file. We do not control it, anti-libre software.
bruh
There’s no drama like FOSS drama.
Agree with the other comments here saying that not everything in life should be viewed through the prism of politics. Civilised society is comprised of people putting their differences aside to work together on various endeavours.
This is akin to MAGA calling the pope marxist cuz he disagrees with them, some people are so one-dimensional its comical, you cant fight stupidity with stupidity, this is how actual fascists justify all of their extremist views, extremism just encourages extremism on the other side and gives those who are indoctrinated a bigger reason to support their indoctrinators. Tunnel vision is one crazy phenomenon 🤡
Regardless of his views I’ll continue using it and supporting it. People will find anything good and look for a reason to ruin it grow tf up.
American politics genuinely makes me lose braincells, backwards fucking country, MAGA or otherwise
Claiming transgender ppl are mentally ill is not fascist, it’s a fact, and the fact MAGA are rinsing it is only cuz its the only thing they can agree on with the people who actually have braincells unlike Trump or his fascist minions, gender dysphoria is a real diagnosable condition, although under no circumstance is violence against them acceptable. I’ve got no qualms with your sexuality, but why are you trynna trick me? They’re not girls, they’re mandem in disguise and they need professional help.
