The European People’s party (EPP), an umbrella group of centre-right and conservative parties, has said in the final draft of its manifesto ahead of elections to the European parliament in May that it wants a series of deal with non-EU countries with a view to deporting irregular migrants for asylum processing in “safe” third countries.
“Yet another unsavoury EPP chunk of red meat, meant to attract the far-right vote. It will not work. All the EPP strategy has achieved over the past years, is making the far right bigger. So if they know it doesn’t work, why do they stubbornly repeat the same tactics each time?” said Sophie in ‘t Veld, a Dutch MEP, and the lead representative for the liberal Renew group on the parliament committee for civil liberties, justice and home affairs.
Before mass slaughtering the Jews in concentration camps, the Nazis also proposed to deport all the Jews to some african country, for instance Madagascar. Now it is about “irregular asylum seekers” which are all ayslum seekers. Nobody can enter a country “regularly” to ask for asylum and get it granted. Next it will be about all “migrants” that are considered undesireable. Then it will be about citizens, who cannot prove an aryan lineage, progressive thinkers, LGTB and other marginalized groups. Finally the concentration camps will be reerected.
That is the plan of the fascists. In Germany they have discussed their plans in a meeting between the fascist AfD, the far right CDU and people recognized as parts of illegal fascist “activist” groups.
The EPP is preparing a cooperation with fascists in all of Europe, giving rise to a new era of fascist regimes in Europe.
Not that I agree with mass murdering or deportation, then again, I’m realistic enough to understand that this mass of “asylum seekers” is absurd. I am not negating that some of them have a quite solid reasons to ask for asylum, but come on, all of them ?
Nobody can enter a country “regularly” to ask for and get it granted.
Wrong, you can do it, asking for asylum to the embassy of the destination country which is present in your country. Or you can go to a border and ask for it. Or go to a police station once in the country. Or any other way that don’t involve to try to go on the run the moment they set foot in a country.
And before someone starts to depict me as a racist, I am all in for integration. I have no problems if you want to come to my country for a better life or because you are fleeing from political or other forms of persecution, you are welcone as long as you want to integrate into the society and follow the laws of my country. I will support you and I will respect your hard work and the even harder choices and sacrifices you have done.
I literally have a lot of problems if all you want to do once in my country is to be the scum that make my city more dangerous for any of its inhabitants, you want to live on petty crime and consciously ignore the laws of my country.
And I don’t see any problem in a country (or the EU) not wanting this scum.Wrong, you can do it, asking for asylum to the embassy of the destination country which is present in your country
Which doesn’t work in countries that are subject to civil war or politically opressive regimes. What do you think happens if you are surveilled as a political activist and go to the embassy of that country? You will never make it to your second appointment. Or lets take Afghanistan for example. The people who used to work for Germany were largely fucked over and left to now be killed by the Taliban, as they were told to go through a bureaucratic process at an office, that was already closed for month before the Taliban finally took over again.
Or you can go to a border and ask for it.
Except you can’t because there is noone processing it there, the offices are all in the country.
Or go to a police station once in the country
And voila, you entered the country “irregularly”. It is simply impossible to enter a country regularly to ask for asylum there. That is the whole point of the system.
Which doesn’t work in countries that are subject to civil war or politically opressive regimes.
Never said that it is the only option. It is an option in certain situation, nothing more.
What do you think happens if you are surveilled as a political activist and go to the embassy of that country? You will never make it to your second appointment.
Again. it is an option. But if you are a surveilled, I bet you know from who (or at least have an idea) and you could go to the embassy of some country you know will be friendly with you. I mean, if I am an enemy of Putin I will not go to a Belarus embassy. Once inside you will probably be offered to not leave the embassy if not to leave the country via diplomatics routes.
Or lets take Afghanistan for example. The people who used to work for Germany were largely fucked over and left to now be killed by the Taliban, as they were told to go through a bureaucratic process at an office, that was already closed for month before the Taliban finally took over again.
Yeah, that was bad and totally wrong.
Except you can’t because there is noone processing it there, the offices are all in the country.
I don’t know where you live, but here in Italy we have officers to every border facing countries not in Schengen (or that have bilateral treaties). Like France now have officers on the “border” with UK. But even if they are in the country, borders are watched anyway, if you stops there someone will come. And chances are that there will be someone else to ask for help, even only to call an officer or accompany you to an officer office.
And voila, you entered the country “irregularly”. It is simply impossible to enter a country regularly to ask for asylum there. That is the whole point of the system.
Maybe. Or maybe not. There are ways to legally enter a country.
But assuming you are right on this point, the difference is that the person who want to ask for asylum the first thing he try to do is to look for some sort of authority or help, not to try to go on the run.
It is hard to defend the people who arrive with a boat (if they are lucky) and than actively try to run from the people who are their first point of contact to ask for asylum. I suppose that someone who truly want to ask for asylum want to be found by the country he is entering.There are ways to legally enter a country.
Not if you require a Visa and you cannot aquire a Visa beforehand. And you can’t because see the points up. Also no embassy can house a million refugees in a year, leave alone help them leave the country that wants to force them into military service (i.e. Syria)
Not if you require a Visa and you cannot aquire a Visa beforehand. And you can’t because see the points up.
Fine, but in this case there are officers at the border to check the Visa so you can go to them and ask to start the process.
I am not saying that all the options I proposed work in every case, I am only saying that if someone really want asylum there are a lot of options beside entering illegally in a country and going on the run the moment you enter.
I agree with you that sometime the only option to start the process to ask for asylum is to enter illegally, what make the difference is what you do once you are in: if your first action is to look for someone to help you to get the process started then I am fine and I understand that, you have no other options. But if your first action it to try fo flee from the authorities (or you come up with all the asylum affair only if you are caught, even weeks/months/years later) then maybe you are not really looking to seek asylum when entering.
What people are increasily afraid of (and less tolerant to) is the mass of illegal immigrants that live on petty crime, if not worse, and once you caught them magically they are all minors without documents (so no way to have a basic identification), politcal persecuted, persecuted for their sexual orientation (or all of these) so they all ask for asylum.
I agree with you that sometime the only option to start the process to ask for asylum is to enter illegally, what make the difference is what you do once you are in: if your first action is to look for someone to help you to get the process started then I am fine and I understand that, you have no other options.
But that is kind of the issue here. In your perception this would be the extraordinary case, but it is the normal case. This has become even more grave, as illegal pushbacks, e.g. Cops or border military violently beating up and deporting people back over the border, without ever listening to them regarding their case. The same is happening for everyone, who does the journey by sea. You can’t wait on an overcrowded boat for the border police to process your asylum applications.
And again you wrongly assume there to be a mass of refugee seekers living off petty crime. First of all there is no “mass” since the numbers have been going down significantly since 2016. Second of all, most of them get practically detained into processing centers and finally the reason why some people resort to crime is because they are kept being denied to work legally.
If worked at a company that illegaly employed asylum seekers that had no work permit, despite living in the country for years. Their work conditions were absolutely inhumane and highly illegal. Think 12 hours shift with nothing but a 6 hour break in between for sleep. And of course the cash payments did not amount to the mandated minimum wage. Still those guys would rather do that, than sell drugs or steal. But the answer in both cases is to grant people the right to work.
But that is kind of the issue here. In your perception this would be the extraordinary case, but it is the normal case. This has become even more grave, as illegal pushbacks, e.g. Cops or border military violently beating up and deporting people back over the border, without ever listening to them regarding their case. The same is happening for everyone, who does the journey by sea. You can’t wait on an overcrowded boat for the border police to process your asylum applications.
Fine. But I am not seeing as trying to flee as soon as you arrive can end in a better situation. I agree, the situation at the borders is critical, but the solution is not to allow everyone in.
And again you wrongly assume there to be a mass of refugee seekers living off petty crime.
I don’t assume, I see them doing it. From selling drugs to snatching old ladies, from stealing cars to entering homes to steal something to sell at the flea market, from assaulting people to occupy illegally a house just because the owner is on holidays. I see them to made whole zones of my city unsafe for women (and sometimes also men) because I lived in one of these zones.
I was a victim of some of this petty crimes, so no man, I can change what I think but I cannot change what I see. And what I see is not what you are saying.
First of all there is no “mass” since the numbers have been going down significantly since 2016. Second of all, most of them get practically detained into processing centers and finally the reason why some people resort to crime is because they are kept being denied to work legally.
Yes, but most of the time they don’t want to work legally, they just want to stay here and get whatever they ask.
If worked at a company that illegaly employed asylum seekers that had no work permit, despite living in the country for years. Their work conditions were absolutely inhumane and highly illegal. Think 12 hours shift with nothing but a 6 hour break in between for sleep. And of course the cash payments did not amount to the mandated minimum wage. Still those guys would rather do that, than sell drugs or steal. But the answer in both cases is to grant people the right to work.
I agree, there are situations like this. And they are absolutely wrong. But the point is that these situation exist exactly because there are illegal immigrant to be easily exploited.
But the problem at hand here is not “what we do with all the people who want to enter” but “what we do with all the people already in, maybe for years, that live on petty crimes and have no intention to integrate into the society”.
Is there such a thing as appeasing the far right? The tories in the UK lurched to the right out of fear of ukip, and that hasn’t really worked. Why would a UK “patriot” vote for the racist-light tories when they can vote ukip?
Same in Sweden with M and SD. M turned more right wing in immigration matters to combat SD, which didn’t help. SD is bigger than ever.
I honestly don’t think most people mind migration, what they do mind is the crime associated with it, unfairly or not, and the unwillingness to call it out.
That and the rampant homophobia, misogyny and antisemitism that comes with some migrants. Not that we don’t have our own idiots here already.
It is not migration that is associated with crime, it is racist people who associate migrants with crime IF they have darker skin.
Nobody complains about the millions of migrants coming from southern or eastern Europe. Unless, of course, they are Roma.
And this is obviously unfair and untrue and a media effect, because every crime committed by a darker-skinned migrant has been reported literally around the world. While local crimes stay where migrant crimes belong, on the local news site. So it’s nonsense to claim that it’s not being talked about; in fact, it’s constantly being exaggerated and used by the media and politicians to incite hatred against dark-skinned people.
Speaking of homophobia: Until 1994, people in Germany could go to prison for homosexuality and after that it took another 23 years until 2017 to rehabilitate those convicted under this law. And racist Germans still didn’t like it. And of course they want to deny any help to homosexual immigrants from predominantly dark-skinned countries. In fact, they want to make homosexuality (not to mention trans people) illegal again, like Putin is doing.
Our culture is deeply misogynistic and those who suffer the most from this are women from countries with Islamic cultures who choose to follow their culture’s dress codes. And every time some racist Europeans come up with a new idea about how to “fight” migrants’ misogyny, what they are really presenting is just another way to make these women’s lives harder than they already are.
Every Palestinian has very good political reasons to hate Israel. The fact that we call this anti-Semitism, even though Jews, Christians and Muslims have lived together in peace in the Middle East for over a thousand years, is just a pathetic attempt to clear ourselves of the murder of millions of Jews. Equating rejection of Israeli policies with anti-Semitism while supporting every crime by the State of Israel with money, weapons and diplomacy is truly outrageous.
And it becomes really disgusting, really anti-Semitic when we actually go so far as to label Jewish people who oppose Israeli policies as anti-Semitic and exclude them from social discourse.
It is therefore impossible for a naive media consumer in Germany to ever see a Jew vehemently defending the Palestinians. This is how anti-Semitism is promoted.
And you’re celebrating your own racism here, while pretending to not being racist at all. Like whole of Europe does.
It is not migration that is associated with crime, it is racist people who associate migrants with crime IF they have darker skin. Nobody complains about the millions of migrants coming from southern or eastern Europe. Unless, of course, they are Roma.
Migrant areas have a higher crime rate. If you’re right wing you blame it on skin colour or culture. If you’re left wing you blame it on socioeconomic factors. Take your pick. The fact remains.
And this is obviously unfair and untrue and a media effect, because every crime committed by a darker-skinned migrant has been reported literally around the world. While local crimes stay where migrant crimes belong, on the local news site. So it’s nonsense to claim that it’s not being talked about; in fact, it’s constantly being exaggerated and used by the media and politicians to incite hatred against dark-skinned people.
I’m sure right wing media love to sell the idea of “bad migrants”. But again, there is a problem in areas with a high migrant population that hasn’t been discussed until very recently. The very idea of pointing out that certain groups are over-represented when it comes to certain crimes was seen as racist not too long ago. How can you address a problem you won’t even acknowledge exists?
Speaking of homophobia: Until 1994, people in Germany could go to prison for homosexuality and after that it took another 23 years until 2017 to rehabilitate those convicted under this law. And racist Germans still didn’t like it. And of course they want to deny any help to homosexual immigrants from predominantly dark-skinned countries. In fact, they want to make homosexuality (not to mention trans people) illegal again, like Putin is doing.
Obviously horrifying, but there’s a reason why gay people leave the middle east and come to the west. We’re far from perfect, but orders of magnitude better than others. Compare the number of people in Germany and Syria/Turkey/Palestine (or pretty much any country in ME) who want to make homosexuality/trans illegal and then tell me that it’s Germany that’s the problem.
Our culture is deeply misogynistic and those who suffer the most from this are women from countries with Islamic cultures who choose to follow their culture’s dress codes. And every time some racist Europeans come up with a new idea about how to “fight” migrants’ misogyny, what they are really presenting is just another way to make these women’s lives harder than they already are.
Do you really think women from Islamic cultures have it worse in the west? I don’t agree with burka-bans or that sort of nonsense, except maybe for minors, but I have a hard time believing that the west is worse for women than Islamic countries in the middle east or northern africa are.
Every Palestinian has very good political reasons to hate Israel. The fact that we call this anti-Semitism, even though Jews, Christians and Muslims have lived together in peace in the Middle East for over a thousand years, is just a pathetic attempt to clear ourselves of the murder of millions of Jews. Equating rejection of Israeli policies with anti-Semitism while supporting every crime by the State of Israel with money, weapons and diplomacy is truly outrageous.
And it becomes really disgusting, really anti-Semitic when we actually go so far as to label Jewish people who oppose Israeli policies as anti-Semitic and exclude them from social discourse.
It is therefore impossible for a naive media consumer in Germany to ever see a Jew vehemently defending the Palestinians. This is how anti-Semitism is promoted.
Hating and or disagreeing with the Israeli government(s) isn’t antisemitism, and I can think of several people with a justified hate for it. That’s not the same as hating jews. There was a study done recently that pointed out that the biggest risk factor for antisemitism is ethnicity.
I do agree that the Israeli government would like to label any criticism against them as antisemitism, which is just silly.
And you’re celebrating your own racism here, while pretending to not being racist at all. Like whole of Europe does.
Ad hominem. How charming.
