See title - very frustrating. There is no way to continue to use the TV without agreeing to the terms. I couldn’t use different inputs, or even go to settings from the home screen and disconnect from the internet to disable their services. If I don’t agree to their terms, then I don’t get access to their new products. That sucks, but fine - I don’t use their services except for the TV itself, and honestly, I’d rather by a dumb TV with a streaming box anyway, but I can’t find those anymore.
Anyway, the new terms are about waiving your right to a class action lawsuit. It’s weird to me because I’d never considered filing a class action lawsuit against Roku until this. They shouldn’t be able to hold my physical device hostage until I agree to new terms that I didn’t agree at the time of purchase or initial setup.
I wish Roku TVs weren’t cheap walmart brand sh*t. Someone with some actual money might sue them and sort this out…
EDIT: Shout out to @testfactor@lemmy.world for recommending the brand “Sceptre” when buying my next (dumb) TV.
EDIT2: Shout out to @0110010001100010@lemmy.world for recommending LG smart TVs as a dumb-TV stand in. They apparently do require an agreement at startup, which is certainly NOT ideal, but the setup can be completed without an internet connection and it remembers input selection on powerup. So, once you have it setup, you’re good to rock and roll.
I reached out to Roku support regarding this. The rep told me “why are you complaining. You are the only one.” He then disconnected the chat. I’ve reached out to my state’s AG to report this. No action so far but waiting. If there are enough complaints, that might help move the needle.
What Roku is doing should be completely illegal - bricking the product after purchasing it for full price if you don’t agree to waiving your rights.
Sue them in small claims for the price of the device.
Sounds like a good way to get a new tv and move away from roku. They’re really piling on the ads lately and making their os really slow.
Sounds like a class action lawsuit to me.
Damn, had no idea roku chat could be that useless.
I like everyone saying “but this is surely illegal!” as if these corporations actually care. At least in the US, it really doesn’t matter what the law says at this point.
Corporations will do what they want and the law will be modified to reflect that, this is the current status quo and it is going to take significant political action (specifically making rich people afraid again to piss the rest of us off too much) to make it change.
It’s just an exhausting uphill battle that never ends. I don’t have the time or resources to combat monied corporations.
It’s just an exhausting uphill battle that never ends. I don’t have the time or resources to combat monied corporations.
Call your House of Representative member and tell them that.
At this point, it’s like they’re trying to get everyone to pirate everything.
I would like to see legislation that forces optional recalls or refunds whenever TOS updates modify the usability and viability of a product.
One of the reasons so-called “smart” TVs are so much cheaper is because they are data-mining you.
Only if you connect them to the Internet. I’ve got an LG TV and I have never connected it to a network. But yeah, most of the Roku style TV’s are like that from what I can tell. They offer streaming services natively to entice people to connect them. TBH Samsung has been doing this for like decades.
Until they add their own mobile data connection so it transfers their analytics.
No need, just broadcast a local wifi signal and piggy back on your neighbors tv connection!
I suppose you’re in the US so I don’t know if my answer fits but if the terms are against the law they are simply void: as in if you have a reason for a class action, no terms or contract can take it away from you
This is an adhesion contract (no counteroffer or ability to negotiate terms, and it was made unilaterally) and probably will not stand up to a challenge in court. Of course, someone would actually have to sue / afford to sue. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/adhesion_contract_(contract_of_adhesion)
Most likely the terms say that you agree to go through individual binding arbitration rather than a lawsuit which the courts have found to be legal and enforceable. It’s really shitty and has become corporations favorite weapon to use against people, particularly because the arbitration companies are usually fairly friendly towards whatever corporation is being challenged. Contractually mandated arbitration really needs to be invalidated. Arbitration is a fine alternative if both parties want to go that route but it should never be forced on someone, particularly because of some bullshit EULA.
afaik even those terms would be unenforcable if you can only see the TOS after buying the product, which would be the case here.
In EU they are unenforcable because they are illegal.
I don’t think so. I think in that case you would have to decline the terms and not use the thing. You would be entitled to compensation for the cost of whatever it was, like you can return it to the manufacturer or vendor somehow.
I’m really glad to live in the EU
Ive got a TOS for them:
SECTION I
a. This contract expressly and to the fullest extent of the law binds that I did not read, nor am I bound to the terms and agreement laid out in any agreement that I agreed to. Any financial gains are automatically won by me in arbitration and any losses acrued are paid for by the Company to me with interest. Here is a vague copy/paste of about 9 more incoherent paragraphs full of “legal jargon” that never really state any clear purpose or definition of services rendered.
…
SECTION IX.
a. BY READING OR NOT READING THIS NOTICE COMPANY ASSUMES AND ACCEPTS ANY AND ALL FINANCIAL LIABILITY THEREIN. COMPANY AGREES TO PAY ME $75,000 FOR EDITING THIS CONTRACT (STANDARD GOING RATE PER DAY) PER DAY EFFECTIVE FOR 3 DAYS MAXIMUM TOTALING $225,000 PLUS TAXES AND INTEREST PAID.
b. COMPANY HAS UP TO 5 DAYS TO RESPOND TO AND DISPUTE THIS CONTRACT(They can’t. It is legally and eternally binding). THANKS FOR THE MONEY NERDS
Take a brick to Roku until it agrees to your terms.
Anyway, the new terms are about waiving your right to a class action lawsuit. It’s weird to me because I’d never considered filing a class action lawsuit against Roku until this. I wish Roku TVs weren’t cheap walmart brand sh*t. Someone with some actual money might sue them and sort this out…
The good thing about class action lawsuits is that you don’t need money. The law firms are just about the only ones that get paid. If you pay attention to class action settlements it’s often something like $3m in attorneys fees, $5,000 to the named plaintiffs, and then a 3 month subscription to the companies own service or a refund of out of pocket expenses, during a specified period, not to exceed $150 per person.
Long story short, firms are more than happy to take on a class action that can be won, but you won’t get much.
Mac address ban the TV from your network and it should work but will no longer have Internet access. I just did this locally and it worked for the one, have to go out but will do it on the other one as well.
In order to prevent it from blinking, factory reset the TV once it’s unconnected to the network, and then make sure to not reconnect it to the Internet during the setup process. Afterwards, you’ll be stuck trying to find ways to replicate all of the built-in functionality of the TV like I now am. I had no idea the Chromecast w/ google TV’s apps had such shitty surround support…anyone know a good replacement device? The ONN streamers are similar in that they basically only put out PCM stereo for Hulu.
I had the same on my 3 yr old Vizio TV earlier this week. TV was useless until I agreed. I don’t know whether it operates without an internet connection, because it has a couple Apps I use that are not supported on my Fire Stick
I wonder if they are planning some serious invasive activities.
Probably. We’re in the middle of a wave of “increased monetization” of streaming. We mostly see more ads, but more tracking helps justify a higher price for ads.
Maybe it’s all Google’s fault 😉. Now that Chrome finally implemented features to block tracking cookies, there’s a potential shift in where advertising dollars are spent. What soulless greedy corporate huckster wouldn’t be salivating at that opportunity?
I have a Vizio as well. It’s been disconnected from the internet for at least 2 years now and functions fine. I guess I miss out on updates, and if I press the Vizio “home” button it freezes up as it’s trying to connect for 20-30 secs before I can do anything, but works fine with an external Android or Apple box. You obviously won’t be able to use any of their apps if you disconnect from the internet, but it’s 100% worth it.
Why would a TV need an update? What’s changed that would require updating to continue to display the signal it’s getting?
I have a Vizio that isn’t connected to the Internet and it’s essentially a computer monitor for my htpc that I control.
If it ever forces me to update I’m getting rid of it.
My real concern is that in 10 years, my htpc loophole will be closed and they’ll datamine me anyway and force me into subscriptions regardless.
Well that’s just it, mostly unnecessary if you’re using it as essentially a monitor (like both of us are doing). Most of the updates would have to do with their smartcast OS or additional features or apps. The updates could also have additional support for devices as new hardware comes out, bug fixes (or additional bugs), speed improvements, etc.
They could definitely implement hardware that automatically connects to wifi without your permission. I guess a solution to that would be to connect to your own internet at home, maybe on a separate subnet that is blocked from accessing the internet.
Are you able to use the built-in airPlay/Chromecast, if it’s on your local network but not the internet and assuming you have a model with that?
Not sure about chromecast, but for AirPlay you don’t need internet connection. It’s probably the same for both, but I use an AppleTV and used a Xiaomi Mibox 3 before that, and would just cast to those if I need.
I’m pretty committed to trying Apple TV like this, as everything else gets shittier faster.
Currently the only thing stopping me is rumors of a new release: If that’s going to happen, I at least want to see what it is before deciding what to buy.
For example, the practical part of the big AI push: Apple has been using more “Neural Engines” in recent processors and that directly translates to better on-device voice processing
Send this to leuis rossmann.
I don’t see how this could be legal at all and how any of those terms could be applicable. My 2 year old found the remote today and he loves buttons, so naturally he pushed every button on there. I thought nothing of it but saw something pop up and then disappear, I assumed it was an error or something from the button mashing, but I guess my 2 year old agreed to rokus new TOS.
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You can try to Root your TV. https://www.xda-developers.com/rootmyroku-jailbreak-roku-tv-set-top-boxes/
Dang… mine is on 12.5.5 and the newest they support is 9.4.0
Mine as well. :/
That sucks, but fine - I don’t use their services except for the TV itself, and honestly, I’d rather by a dumb TV with a streaming box anyway, but I can’t find those anymore.
Search for monitors, not televisions. For example, you can get an 48in and 55in OLEDs dumb monitors with multiple HDMI inputs.
Just make sure they have audio out too (unless your source can drive a soundbar directly). I just got a new monitor that had built in speakers. They’re dog shit, and I didn’t plan on using them anyway, but I hadn’t appreciated how useful it was having a device that can decode the audio stream from HDMI or DP.
I still have my old usb soundbar for the times I want a loudspeaker, but I can just leave my headphones plugged into the monitors jack and switch the output device on the computer.deleted by creator
Commercial display TVs are dumb. They are TVs meant for store displays and lack “smart” functionality.
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Sucks this happened to you. If it is still under warranty, you should return it for a replacement or store credit. Complain that it has ceased to function.
A good set of advice is to never connect your TV to the internet. A cheap streaming box or HTPC does the same function, and doesn’t open you up to issues like this. Your TV is also almost certainly selling your viewing data if you have it connected to the internet.
Almost certainly - but that is what I agreed to when I bought the TV.
Like I said in the post, I’d much prefer dumb TVs, but they I can’t really find them anymore. Best I can do is buy a smart TV that’d won’t let you do anything (including selecting inputs) until you connect it to the internet, agree to their horrible anti-consumer licensing agreement. Only then to open up a different smart device product that will still steal my data and force me to give up my legal right to a class action? The current system is scam.
Do you have any recommendations for dumb TVs?
As someone in pro AV, here’s my recommendation for a dumb TV: A smart TV that you never connect to your wifi.
All that bloatware shit they install is what makes it cheap. At my job I can buy commercial displays (no crapware) at cost and it’s still cheaper to buy a consumer one.
Unless IP control is absolutely mandatory for you, it’s cheaper and easier to go consumer for displays
I’m pretty sure that you cannot use a roku-enabled device for any purpose until you agree to their terms of service, which just puts me back into the same boat.
Do you have any recommendations for actual dumb TVs?
Sceptre makes modern, affordable dumb TVs.
We found an answer! Thank you!
I’ve been searching online between comment responses looking for actually useful recommendations. It looks like Sceptre or LG are going to be good starting points. Between the two website, I’m leaning pretty heavily towards the Sceptre. I’m excited to here more from the person posting about the professional/commercial AV displays.
Any TV that you just don’t connect to the internet at all, ever.
Hmm, yes, I agree! Totally agree on this. No argument. I’m curious though - what TV would that be? What TV can someone buy today that doesn’t require an initial setup process that requires an agreement to certain terms and conditions prior to use?
Not trying to be hostile towards you in particular. I’m feeling frustrated with this answer because I am seeing it a lot (both online and in online searches right now), but I’m having some difficulty finding it actually useful advice. Many devices are setup from the factory to not allow use until agreeing to certain terms and conditions that must be agreed to before using the TV. I need to know which TVs - if any - do not require this. It is surprisingly difficult! I feel frustrated with this answer because it feels reductive & dismissive of the actual problem.
Again, nothing against you in particular. I’m just frustrated with this - seemingly reasonable but not actually applicable based on what I have been able to research online so far - answer.
Show me one piece of technology in your life that didn’t come with T&C that put you at a disadvantage against the manufacturer, I’ll show you ten fairies, a unicorn, and the herald of darkness.
My grandmother has a Philips dumb TV that doesn’t have any network connectivity and it still showed a click-through T&C. If you can’t get something like that in your region, ship from the EU, they’re still sold here.
Whew, that inter-continental shipping is going to be rough, but I’ve had to pay it before. Thanks for the advice!
Samsung, Sony, and LG all let you skip connecting to there Internet. I prefer Sony TVs because Samsung has stupid VESA mounting options but they’re all good
I just bought a Roku smart TV and the first time I powered it on, it asked if I wanted to enable smart features by connecting to the Internet. I said no and it functions like a dumb TV now. There are a couple brands that still make dumb TVs but they are all fairly small and not great quality. Much better off researching which smart TVs can be easily disabled.
This is the point that I’ve been stuck on. There doesn’t seem to be clear, easily available, documentation on which models those are. However, I have been able to find many ramble-ly “old man yells at cloud” forum & social media posts (You know, like this one!) when a model doesn’t allow it.
I’ve had LGs for years (just got a new C3 OLED) and they don’t require internet access to function. My current OLED isn’t connected and works perfectly fine. I use a standalone Roku for streaming.
I think that I’m about to sold on LG TVs. Do you need to agree to any terms of service for initial setup? Additionally, do you have to navigate menus on startup to get to the streaming device? If so, that is ok, but very annoying if I can’t set it up to start on a particular input on power up.
LG have started sending some bullshit major updates to both of my TVs recently. The whole “home” interface is now sluggish and full of video heavy garbage I don’t want to see. They are still better than some smart platforms (looking at you Vizio, Samsung, and Roku), but I am far less pleased with them than I used to be.
I did have to agree to the terms during setup. You do NOT have to navigate menus on startup. It remembers the last input and defaults there. You can then easily change the input via the remote if needed.
It remembers the last input and defaults there.
It never occurred to me that TVs might not do that.
This is really good/useful info - thank you!
They also have a list of items you can and cannot agree to, instead of just 1. So agree to 1, and say no to the rest sort of deal. You can also set the TV to non-US and get a little less bullshit.
Buy a really large computer monitor
That would be a good idea if there wasn’t a 100x difference in price for something actually tv size big.
Look for computer monitors instead of a TV.
