The French government issued a decree Tuesday banning the term “steak” on the label of vegetarian products, saying it was reserved for meat alone.
What a strange thing to be pedantic about
Oh we’re good at this. In the whole EU it’s not allowed to print ‘milk’ or ‘cheese’ on something that doesn’t contain actual animal’s milk. Want to sell soy milk? Ok but don’t call it that way…
Germany has a whole line of not milks, almost chicken, like chicken, thun visch and i can almost be certain i saw mjolk and moloko somehwere. I always chuckle a bit when i see it.
Not to mention Vozzarella
Smells a little fishy, I assume
More than a little…
I understand what you were talking about until you got past like chicken lol
It actually is allowed for German “Scheuermilch” (“scouring cream”, which is a cleaning detergent, literal translation: “scrubbing milk”).
The law only addresses agricultural products but yeah there are exceptions for products that were traditional before the law was passed
And we had this minister for transport Scheuer…
But his name doesn’t come from Scheuermilch, it’s rather an abbreviation of “bescheuert” - bonkers.
I can tell you a little about how Germany does this and I think the rest of the EU & France should be similar. There is a government body defining what specific foods are and if your food doesn’t match that, you can’t name it like the food in question. And that does make sense - butter has to be made from milk and not some palm oil mixed together by shady businesses and milk has to come from an animal and can’t be water & white paint.
This does make sense and really protects the consumer. It does - however - really run into problems when dealing with those vegetarian meat replacements. It would make sense to sell a “vegetarian ham”, but ham has an exact, legal definition and part of that definition is that ham has to contain meat.
I find it helpful to have the thing being imitated as part of the name, but not the full name. It makes for an easy way to know what the taste and texture should be and how it can be used in cooking. My kid developed a dairy allergy recently and vegan butter in particular is so easy to substitute in old favorite recipes without changing the flavor much or cooking method. As for meat imitations, a “vegetarian steak” (or ham) label conveys a lot about the texture, moisture, saltiness, and cooking techniques you can expect to use while a generic name such as “plant protein block” leaves you much more clueless as to what the texture and cooking method is meant to be for that item. I don’t think it should be legal to sell plant substitutes as only “steak “ or “butter”, but calling it “plant steak” or “plant butter” is way more straightforward and easy to fit on a label than a lengthy description of “plant patty with a fibrous, chewy texture and savory flavor resembling steak.”
And that does make sense - butter has to be made from milk
cries in coal butter
A milk is what I mix with my cereal, pour in my coffee, use in a pancake mixture and so on. I can’t see any logic behind limiting this to animal products other than a political agenda.
Sorry you are saying you can’t call something that is not cheese ‘cheese’? Preposterous.
Well to be precise you’re not allowed to label any agricultural product cheese that wasn’t made of milk.
There are only some exceptions for traditional things like Leberkäse
It’s almost as if words should mean something. Now do milk vs juice.
It isn’t
You don’t want to be tricked into eating something else than you intended. Even ignoring the whole value of eating meat argument, there is an allergy problem in play
And, I’ve noticed that vegetarian products are being hidden more and more insidiously over the years. It’s intentionally misleading and potentially harmful
No beefsteak tomatoes for you!
This is so stupid and a collosal waste of time. Do they really feel people are just so stupid they can’t figure their stuff out for themselves?
Also, and I cant stress this enough, they are just wrong.
Not in France, but as a meat eater I am starting to get annoyed at misleading labelling. Can I eventually figure out that what’s in my hands in the supermarket aisle is some sort of meat substitute? Sure, I’d like not waste my time though and others might be in a rush, distracted or you know mislead.
Have you come up with a great new meat free product? Awesome, find a catchy new namenand market it, you don’t need to piggy bag on steak or bacon that have a pretty specific meaning to consumers.
Also, are you a rabid vegan that hates everything meat related? Why would you want to buy and eat something called bacon?
Edit: also you are correct that this is a colossal waste of time. Customers time. France and other countries with a gastronomic culture like italy take food and food related frauds pretty seriously. And IMO they are right. Want to sell some new experimental shit? Be my guest, as a customer I should be able to opt in, not have to opt out.
I would like to buy something called bacon because I like bacon? You can like meat and still be vegan. Most vegans are vegan because of animal cruelty and climate impact, not because they hate meat. I can only speak for my country, but here such products are all on the same shelf and are clearly labeled as vegetarian/vegan. It makes sense to call it vegan bacon or vegan steak because it clearly imitates the meat product and I don’t want to have to decipher what it’s supposed to be first.
Then buy bacon. Or go online and try to find some info about what could resemble bacon in your country/area. Don’t see why all fucking people that have been buying bacon expecting to buy bacon now need to sift through other stuff to find, you know, bacon.
Doesn’t really matter the reason why vegans are vegans. You made a choice, deal with it and I am not saying this in a snarky way, we shouldn’t change the meaning orlf word and mislabel food because of your choice and your personal tastes that still lean towards bacon - I can’t blame you for that BTW
I don’t understand why you seem to be so angry about it. I won’t buy “real” bacon because it’s terrible for both climate and pigs.
Nobody is mislabeling food. Vegan bacon is the perfect term for a vegan bacon substitute and nobody ever bought something labeled “vegan bacon” and was then disappointed that it didn’t contain meat. It’s not like manufacturers try to deceive people. The stuff is clearly labeled as vegan and it’s usually even sold from a different shelf.I don’t understand why you seem to be so angry about it. I won’t buy “real” bacon because it’s terrible for both climate and pigs.
I am not that sure that from a climate point of view, my steak that come from the farm down the road (who was raised in the grass the other side of the road) is worse than the avocado coming from Florida.
If you go to the industrial production, in the end there are no difference in the outcome, only in the way you arrive there.
Nobody is mislabeling food. Vegan bacon is the perfect term for a vegan bacon substitute and nobody ever bought something labeled “vegan bacon” and was then disappointed that it didn’t contain meat. It’s not like manufacturers try to deceive people.
Fine, but because we cannot agree to call things with its proper name ?
The stuff is clearly labeled as vegan and it’s usually even sold from a different shelf.
True, so I suppose that I can come up with some kind of “beyond cabbage” made from animal products and call it cabbage, right ? After all people just need to do is read the label…
I’m just going to drop this here.
Transportation is such a small factor in food production is pretty much negligible. Meat always loses vs plants regarding climate impact.
Fine, but because we cannot agree to call things with its proper name ?
Yes, that’s all I’m saying. Bacon is Bacon, vegan bacon is vegan bacon.
True, so I suppose that I can come up with some kind of “beyond cabbage” made from animal products and call it cabbage, right ? After all people just need to do is read the label…
If your meat cabbage abomination is labeled correctly and not sold in the vegetable section of the supermarket, sure, go for it. I doubt it would be a successful product, but go for it.
I’m just going to drop this here.
Transportation is such a small factor in food production is pretty much negligible. Meat always loses vs plants regarding climate impact.
Probably, I am not able to read what the picture say (for some reason is too small)
Fine, but because we cannot agree to call things with its proper name ?Yes, that’s all I’m saying. Bacon is Bacon, vegan bacon is vegan bacon.
Except the word bacon means “meat from the back or sides of a pig, often eaten fried in thin slices” and the word vegan means “a person who does not eat or use any animal products, such as meat, fish, eggs, cheese, or leather” (definitions from the Cambrigde dictionary), so maybe if you don’t want to change the language you need to come up with some other name, which have not this contradiction in itself ( and personally I think it would be better from a marketing point of view)
True, so I suppose that I can come up with some kind of “beyond cabbage” made from animal products and call it cabbage, right ? After all people just need to do is read the label…
If your meat cabbage abomination is labeled correctly and not sold in the vegetable section of the supermarket, sure, go for it. I doubt it would be a successful product, but go for it.
Well, I can say the same about the vegan meat abomination.
I love meat and think that this rule is stupid. The metaphors are used to describe what taste and texture you might expect from a product, which makes sense especially for people who just switched and want to emulate the taste pallet they are used to.
Except that France regulates their food industry very strictly and rightly so. What you think it’s a metaphor, it’s actually a word with a specific meaning.
Try to emulate Champagne and sell it as a Champagne in europe, and then try to convince the judge that you just intended that as a metaphore and wanted to emulate the taste pallet.
Champagne is a funny example because colloquially people will often use that term to describe any sparkling wine. And as said before - I disagree that this specific regulation is very useful to anyone, except maybe producers. Most people understand what coconut milk is.
The only funny thing is that you call shitty wine champagne COLLOQUIALLY with your mates and miss the point that this whole thread is about food being sold to customers and actually labelled wrong, something that is taken pretty seriously in the EU, and rightly so.
Want to continue talking about champagne in your after work plans with Debbie from the second floor? Be out guest but you can’t sell something that is not champagne as such.
And BTW this is a good thing for all of us consumers of the union. Particularly vegans and vegetarians, the main target audience of these replacement products. You wouldn’t want their products accidentally mislabelled and chicken eggs or animal meat ending in products labelled as vegan?
The only funny thing is that you call shitty wine champagne
You seem to be a calm and reasonable person.
Maybe instead of screaming you could actually try to explain what is a problem of labeling a vegan product as vegan steak. For customer it’s rather clear that it’s vegan and he also gets a general idea of taste and texture that the producer was at least going for. So what exact problem does arrive from having a vegan steak?
You wouldn’t want their products accidentally mislabelled and chicken eggs or animal meat ending in products labelled as vegan?
If you planing on producing meat that tastes like banana, I don’t see any problem to lable it as meat banana.
Maybe instead of screaming you could actually try to explain what is a problem of labeling a vegan product as vegan steak
Confusing and misrepresenting. Steak is meat.
For customer it’s rather clear that it’s vegan Except that in some cases it’s not.
So what exact problem does arrive from having a vegan steak? Again confusing and misrepresenting for customers. The reason why France legislated about this BTW, let’s not pretend it’s hard to grasp
if you planing on producing meat that tastes like banana, I don’t see any problem to lable it as meat banana.
No I am talking about a processed vegan food that is called ‘vegan something’ but that it turns out, has chicken eggs and maybe even meat in the list of ingredients. Just because someone might argue around the meaning of ‘vegan’ the way we are doing for steak, and legislation in some countriesight not protect the meaning of vegan in food names.
Just to be very clear. Nothing against vegans or vegan food. I am for clarity when it comes to customers, particularly in the food industry.
Meat eaters are being opressed the same way as christians. This has to stop! Normal people can’t be mislead to make better dietary choices, they need their god given ability to excercise their rights in being a huge burden on the environment!
Mate, you might think your highly processed piece of crap is a better dietary choice. Fine I have no problem with that.
What I am asking is not being misled into buying it as a steak.
And if it’s so superior, why do you need to call it a steak, use some imagination and come up with a name on par with its superiority.
The word steak is not your property. I can do what I want with it and you don’t need to understand. Im sorry it hurts you so much.
True, but it has a meaning.
Sure you can do what you want. Go ahead and try to sell your processed crap as steak in france and let’s see how it goes.
Do you buy [generic animal steak] or do you buy cattle, bison, buffalo, camel, goat, horse, kangaroo, sheep, ostrich, pigs, turkey, or deer steak?
People sometimes act like that the description of steak or milk (cow, human, goat, cat) is unambiguous. I have never seen plant based food which does not declare it like [plant based steak]
I am all in for clear description of food and a big label if it contains animal suffering and the destruction of the eco system or if it is plant based. If you don’t care which animal parts you buy as long as “meat” or “steak” is any death animal I think you are in the minority.
Mentioned in another thread. I buy meat cuts the same way I buy a head of broccoli, pass by the aisle look at it and grab it. And so does the fucking majority of population that are busy and would like to continue to do so and not need to read the fine printing
I can identify a beef steak from pork, lamb, chicken and horse by the look of the meat and by the cut. I do so routinely and so do everyone that shops for meat.
The same way I can tell a head of broccoli from say cauliflower.
A meat replacement beef stake looks exactly like a beef steak. If it also says steak on the packaging people can just grab it and go. Definition of mislabelling.
Now, I’ve already covered this in other comments so if you are about to say this is my fucking problem and that I should learn to read. No, this is every customer’s problem. People are busy, elderly people might not bring their glasses to the supermarket and more in general the EU is on the side of the customer so no, company that sell something should label it clearly particularly if it could be deceiving.
If you are about to give me the poor meat eaters, treated unwell consider that vegetarians and vegans have more to lose. What if the tables turn and dodgy vendors are allowed to label their product vegan friendly even tho6they might not be.
If it also says steak on the packaging people can just grab it and go. Definition of mislabelling.
I have never seen just [Steak] on any package. You have proven that you know words by writingen them. I reckon you can read them too.
Would it be fine for you to start selling dog steak just labeld as steak? They take great care and pride to label it correctly https://www.elwooddogmeat.com/ They make sure you know what you get because it is a premium product. If you just buy storebrand animal meat and don’t care about who it was I can’t help you.
Ah yes you have proven that I can read therefore it is okay to mislabel products across a whole country and potentially mislead other people. Checkmate.
Or how about we protect customers and try not to mislabel products?
What’s with the dog meat? I believe it’s illegal everywhere in Europe isn’t it? Otherwise, just meat so yeah technically a steak.
I have never seen just [Steak] on any package. You have proven that you know words by writingen them. I reckon you can read them too.
I don’t know where you buy your food, but here I can clearly see meat labeled as “steak” in my supermarket.
Do you buy [generic animal steak] or do you buy cattle, bison, buffalo, camel, goat, horse, kangaroo, sheep, ostrich, pigs, turkey, or deer steak?
In Italy (and as far as I remember even in France) they are divided into different aisles, so in a certain aisle you will find only meat from a certain animal.
People sometimes act like that the description of steak or milk (cow, human, goat, cat) is unambiguous. I have never seen plant based food which does not declare it like [plant based steak]
It is not the point, I also never see a plant based food not declared, but I think it is right to not be able to call “milk” what you get from a almond.
I am all in for clear description of food and a big label if it contains animal suffering and the destruction of the eco system or if it is plant based. If you don’t care which animal parts you buy as long as “meat” or “steak” is any death animal I think you are in the minority.
Or maybe we just think that words has a meaning.
Or maybe we just think that words has a meaning.
I guess you have a strong opinion on calling a bond between two man or two woman marriage?
Not particularly. For what I think is the marriage is, I simply don’t care and, oddly enough, the law about the civil marriage cite the words “husband” and “wife” only once, the other times it use the word “consorts” that here is neutral, and in the context it simply mean “both of you”. So even the law seem to don’t care (mostly) about the sex of the people getting married.
So it was always the way that same sex marriage was accepted and nobody had to fight against people who claim “but the bible …” “It is between a man a women and nothing else” “next you want to marriage you dog”, right? There where never people who fought to change the system because the system and the laws have always been perfect?
So it was always the way that same sex marriage was accepted and nobody had to fight against people who claim “but the bible …” “It is between a man a women and nothing else” “next you want to marriage you dog”, right?
That’s not what I said. I just stated what I think and what the law say in Italy. I am not responsible for what other people think.
There where never people who fought to change the system because the system and the laws have always been perfect?
If we are talking about the marriage, I can agree with you, in fact in Italy we have other forms of unions (which don’t make any difference between the sexes) to substitute the marriage which for the State are like a marriage. Note that even if conceptually they are the same thing, we call with different names exactly because in Italy the marriage is way too often identified with the religious one, which for the law is void (ie if you are only married relligiously, which means the 3 law article I cited are not read, then for the State you are not married). We have not tried to change the meaning of a specific word.
The politicians are trying to take away our steak!!1!
