Up on the dam, almost everything that looks like a problem becomes an advantage.
The plant sits above the fog line, in thin, clear air that lets far more sunlight through.
The higher you go, the stronger and cleaner the sunlight becomes.
Cold actually helps, because solar panels work more efficiently when they are not baking in heat.
And then there is the snow, which acts like a giant mirror, bouncing extra light up onto the panels from below.
Scientists call it the albedo effect, and it can lift a mountain plant’s output well beyond anything possible in the valley.
A test site at a similar height recorded yearly output far above a typical Swiss plant.
Why the fuck would everyone say solar doesn’t make sense up where it’s cold and clear where anyone who knows anything about the topic knows that solar is most efficient?
Quite a dam advancement.
An example of some great dam thinking by a group of smart dam people.
Stupid question, never wondered how dams are constructed (and location chosen): Isn’t there a risk of them being flooded, like in an emergency dump scenario?
Absolutely! They have spillways for this scenario. Practical Engineering on YouTube has a few videos on spillways and a spillway failure.
I have a very serious issue with this!
What about the profits for coal companies! How are they supposed to make money! What if they go out of business!
WON’T SOMEBODY THINK ABOUT COAL INDUSTRY PROFITS!
I imagine they had to do a lot of calculations in order to be sure this installation would not compromise the dam. But if this could be applied in other locations, it could be extremely benificial.
Honestly, I think it wouldn’t be a problem in any dam. I’m sure they made all the required studies but dams are so thick and made to withstand such great forces that a couple of solar panels bolted on would be negligible. I bet 10cm of water rise would be a way bigger load
Especially considering anything
attractedattached to the dam is going to add a vertical force that could do more to help with the lateral force from the water than it would do to bring the dam closer to collapse, though probably does closer to nothing to the overall physics of the dam.Edit: Fixed a word as I don’t think the existence of damphiles has any effect on the performance of dams until they start drilling/punching holes in them.
I’ve thought for YEARS that we should to the same thing with the Hoover Dam. Should also mount wind turbines on the face of it to catch the updrafts out of the canyon. You all acting like green energy has to be mutually exclusive to one another. Wind turbine blades have a lot of surface area that could be covered in solar panels, which solves the issue of solar panels energy output decreasing with heat because then they’d always have built in cooling. No wind? There’s still light and some wattage is better than no wattage. Put the turbine blade head on a giant hinge and they can catch rising air from the grounds’ radiant heat at night. Free energy is everywhere if you just know where to look and how to take advantage of it.
Maybe it’s no big deal, but I imagine there’s a significant complication of the blades to do that. They’re basically wings, and (again, I’d imagine) are structurally sensitive.
Agree with your general point of mix and match and combine
solar cells are basically a membrane. it’s usually the mounting frame that adds the weight.
Maybe it’s no big deal, but I imagine there’s a significant complication of the blades to do that. They’re basically wings, and (again, I’d imagine) are structurally sensitive.
I think a problem could be that the wind turbines are moving parts, so they somehow vibrate, and that could be a problem for the dam while panel on the other hand are basically a layer of paint.
You all acting like green energy has to be mutually exclusive to one another.
I certainly don’t. But I agree, there’s a lot of ideas that die on the cutting room floor because they don’t pander to a specific lobbying interest.
Putting solar panels in a valley in Switzerland is… a graphic demonstration of tunnel vision.
…the assumption was simple, that solar belongs low and warm, on sunny roofs and flat fields, not up in the freezing thin air of the mountains.
Well that’s a stupid assumption. what other kind of electronic works better when it’s super hot??
The country makes plenty of power in summer, but runs short in winter, when demand climbs and it has to import electricity.
That gap is set to grow as the nation closes its nuclear plants.
Damn, two stupid ideas from the Swiss. At least the fabled “someone” put those solar panels up there. 🙄
Yeah, the fears about nucular are global I’m afraid. The Swiss decided 40 years ago that they would no longer invest in nuclear energy and massively reduce upkeep on the existing reactors, thereby making issues a self fulfilling prophecy. Most of the reactors have now reached their end of life, if not ten years ago. So turning them off is really a necessity, but building new ones now would be stupid.
Solar is much cheaper than nuclear in the long run, you dumbass
Yep, but require much more space. And it could be not available when you need it.
you seem delightful. People must really like you in your personal life.
I agree with you, content-wise, but there’s no need to insult people. It provokes emotions that add nothing reasonable and productive.
Let’s work together on a better, kinder world <3
So you’re happy to go without power after sunset then?
Until we have more storage options or diversified sources then that’s what you get. Or do you think it will all happen by magic?
Maybe try being less rude unless you have a solution that doesn’t just involve wishful thinking.Wait till they find out about batteries!
Ffs this is exactly what I mean… To power Switzerland for only 6 hours (38GWh), you would need approximately 30,000 to 35,000 utility-scale batteries. Where and how exactly are you building them?
Must solve all problems at the same time for entire country, can’t possibly wind things down while building up alternatives. Only good solution is nuclear, ignore all previous nuclear issues, they were one offs that only happened because people were stupid. We now smart humans will never have stupid or corrupt people.
Really I don’t even dislike nuclear, some people treat it as the only option when there are clearly alternatives, and solar and batteries appears to be one.
You should buy a home next to a nuclear power plant.
oh yeah all that water vapor is real scary 😱
I think that the Chernobyl disaster made much more psychological damages than real ones, in the long term.
I tried (but not very hard) to check what the highest altitude dam in the world is, but searches kept giving me the tallest dams instead. But, for anyone who’s wondering, I also looked up what the highest altitude solar farm in the world is, and it turns out it’s the Huadian Tibet Caipeng project, at 5,228 meters (17,152 feet) above sea level on the highest plateau in the world. I have to wonder if snow accumulation outweighs the benefits of the lower temperatures and thinner atmosphere.
usually snow slides off solar panels fairly easily since they are smooth, tilted, and absorb heat.
It can build up overnight though, so I think the question remains valid.
Smooth and tilted still applies. Also, being a mesa, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was wind as a factor. Turns out the Mars rovers Opportunity and Spirit ended up lasting longer than originally expected in part because the winds on Mars ended up cleaning the accumulated dust on the solar panels.
Good point, great comparison.
yeah i mean even after it’s built up it will slide off in sheets when there is enough sun.
I was more referring to snowpack - at this elevation, multiple days of snowfall accumulating several feet deep is common in some parts of the world. For reference, the tallest mountain in Colorado is 3000 feet lower. I assume it’s a pretty arid region, or they wouldn’t have built it.
Maybe search for highest-altitude reservoirs instead of dams?
I would think solar would be even more efficient high up in mountains.
Colder temperatures mean they’d stay cooler, produce more power, and for longer… and they are higher up in the air, so amount of photons hitting the panels has to be higher than at sea level, too, further increasing power generation.
At least thats what I’d assume, applying some common sense and a little educated guessing.
I read the German source article someone else posted and you’re spot on. The thinner air is the main advantage for the reason you mentioned. But apparently snow-reflected light off the surrounding peaks is a significant factor as well. I find that interesting.
Article reads like AI trash. Is there an actual source?
There was a lot of news about the Muttsee Dam solar project a few years ago, so it’s a real thing and a good thing. But it’s hardly current news. It’s been operational since 2022.
The solar plant makes more power than any farm in the valley. It’s hard for me to understand this. Farms make crops in my mind, not power. It’s just an odd comparison. Am I reading this wrong? Am I being a dumb dumb?
A large group of solar panels is often called a solar farm. Similarly, groups of wind turbines are often called wind farms.
The solar plant makes more power than any farm in the valley.
You’ll want to read the article. Solar farms in the valley have to deal with fog during the winter months, which drastically reduces the energy they produce.
Hello Petzl! Would have been pretty cool to work on that solar project.
To be honest, historically and depending on the installation solar power is more useful in the summer or warmer months and dams are less useful because you’re hoping the reservoir fills up and provides power all winter. The reverse is true in the winter we’re damn sure produce more reliable energy but solar power is slightly less available
So to me this sounds like a fairly elegant solution where the dam will now produce large amounts of power throughout the spring and summer months as well as the fall and winter months allowing for more water to be saved up for the winter and more power generation. I’m sure the solar also helps augment the winter as well
My biggest concern is that I have to assume there’s a far greater initial cost for installation, in addition to higher costs for maintenance versus a more traditional farm
Definitely likely. But what’s the $/kwh? And is it worth the price for the added year-round contribution to the grid relative to, say, natural gas imports or coal plant construction/maintenance?
One thing they note is the difficulty of building and maintaining wind farms in the region, which I found surprising. And wind has undercut fossil fuel power for almost a decade. The appeal of solar energy is that these panels are incredibly cheap and light weight, making this kind of installation possible at all. Virtually no moving parts. Comparatively little to maintain. Modular such that if one component fails, it doesn’t shut down the whole installation.
I think you might be surprised how appealing this setup is, even in remote locations.
