Fuck fossil fuels.
Who would have guessed that importing overpriced fossil fuels is bad?
😮
Certainly not Germany and Poland. Gas cucks. I just want affordable heat. Renewables are cheaper, why are policymakers resisting cheap energy, during an energy price crisis?
nothing beat maintaining the systems that keep those in power wealthy and powerful.
Heat pumps are much bigger investment upfront
Money.
Because renewables, while cheaper, have their share of problems, the first one is that you cannot (yet and completely) store what they produce. Oil in more something like “on demand” in some aspects, people generally expect that when they want hot water they have it, not that they need to plan when to use it.
Another big problem, actually, is that renewables tends to not be available when you need them the most (this derive from the fact that for now we have limited storing capacity): wind turbines have speed limits to not break and solar panels need at least a certain exposure to produce for example.
Other sources could not be available everywhere or be economically justified.Nobody really like to pay more, it is simply that for now oil and gas are seen as more reliable than renewables, and this offset the fact that they are more expensive.
This will change in the future, no doubts, but the solution is a lot more complex than simply saying “renewable are cheaper”.Another big problem, actually, is that renewables tends to not be available when you need them the most
Not true: Wind turbines generate more energy in Western European winter - when we need to power electric heat pumps - and solar in Southern European summer - when we need to power A/C units.
Plus it does not matter if 2% of the time we need to fire up fossil backup generation.
Plus it is easily possible to build seasonal heat storage for multi-family houing units. Basically big tank with water and lots of insulation.
I am tired of that disinformation.
Not true: Wind turbines generate more energy in Western European winter - when we need to power electric heat pumps - and solar in Southern European summer - when we need to power A/C units.
Plus it does not matter if 2% of the time we need to fire up fossil backup generation.
The problem is not when everything works as intended, the problem is when nothing works as intended, like during emergencies when the wind is too strong (so the turbines shut off to avoid damages) or during winter in the southern Europe where the panels are covered by snow or it rain for some consecutive days.
I understand that we cannot plan only around emergencies but we need to consider them.Plus it is easily possible to build seasonal heat storage for multi-family houing units. Basically big tank with water and lots of insulation.
LOL. Listen, here (Italy) it is already impossible to build big tanks in the middle of nowhere (basically unused fields) to avoid that rivers and streams overflow when it rains just a little more than usual causing millions of Euro of damages (last time, in September 2025 in my small city only it was 48 millions) and you want to build big tanks near houses ? Good luck with that.
I am tired of that disinformation.
The only disinformation is thinking that renewables are ready to be a drop in substitute for oil and gas. They are usefull, no doubt, but we need to solve the problem of storing all the surplus they generated. And as for now there is not really a solution that work on a large scale, which is what we need.
Perhaps it surprises you but a lot of people are such oil brained corpo shills they cannot fathom not burning the planet down to the ground. They call free energy ideologically driven in an obvious attempt at projection.
Which is to say that sadly a lot of people would never guess importing fossil fuels just to burn them might be a terrible idea actually.
Won‘t stop the tidal wave of heat pump installations though because most people actually like saving money.
Its becoming more common here in Central Europe, most new builds family houses have them.
They have a couple drawbacks, like the high upfront cost (in my country a mid-range pump can cost between 3-8K Euros) and they work best with well insulated buildings, but once its installed they can save a tons of money, especially when paired with solar panels or wind turbines.
Where would that be? My sister in Germany just got an offer for a heat pump+installation for 42k Euros in Germany.
It’s even a quote my boss gave me. I work in HVAC and plumbing but I do different things and I want it planned right.
I haven’t looked at the details but a boiler is also included and it’s+8k for deinstallation of the old one.
As far as I know the problem is with government subsidies because they just get slapped on the price. Plus there is a list of companies that are eligable for subsidies and the big German companies lobby to exclude other players. Plus German hvac companies usually have a partner that they get their heat pumps from and they don’t like to switch. The typical German HVAC company has maybe 5-10 employees.
Thats a lot. My whole water installation was under 5k (plumbing without appliances + floor heating) for a 110 m2 family house, plus got mutiple offers for heat pumps (install+setup) between 4k - 8k with different mid-ranged models (air-water) after stating my budget. Of course there are high-end models for 10-20k, but I have no reason to choose smart features and buzzwords for the premium price.
Location is Slovakia, but prices in Hungary and Czech Republic are similar. All prices are from 2025-2026, with government support program for energy saving appliances.
That sounds like a quote for a ground source heat pump. Air source heat pumps are far more popular and much cheaper to install.
Labour is the main cost. Ours was about €11k. Future replacements would cost as much as a boiler upgrade since the pipework and radiators are already there.
We got quoted 12 and 14k for our two respective estimates and it was getting an eco-friendly coolant box manufactured in Germany so it was easily repairable. Not the best money could buy but not the Bauhaus version either.
Unfortunately the landlords rejected every proposal we made because landlords are leaches on society.
For a flat I once had, to have 24 degrees I paid 2000 € in just gas for one year. It may seem high, but it gets profitable pretty quickly.
What kills me if in America, especially in New England, is we still have tons of people, if not a majority a huge percentage, burning #2 heating oil during the winter. It used to be so cheap as to hardly think about filling the tank before winter, but it’s almost as much as gasoline now. My thought is “how hard can it be to convert those burners to biofuel, either reclaimed vegetable oil like diesel or with a mix of ethanol from corn to lower the cost.” Because if there’s one thing America has the capacity to produce a shitload of, it’s ethanol.
If somebody with a better grasp of the subject has an answer for that I would be very grateful.
I’m back from the Internet with knowledge to share!
https://www.northeastbiodiesel.com/heating-with-biodiesel
So it does exist, requires no retrofit up to 20% biodiesel, and with minor retrofit can go to pure BD, but it congeals around 45°f so some amount of petroleum as a stabilizer is required for winter heating. Apparently ethanol from corn does not produce more energy than is required to create it, but biodiesel already being partly made for another purpose and otherwise wasted brings its creation energy down a lot.
