The problem with a vehicle kill switch is the same problem as an encryption backdoor for law enforcement. It will leak, quickly (inside a year) and so not only will law enforcement misuse this power (history shows they’ve misused all powers they’ve been given) but nefarious interests will use it to cause havoc.
one problem…
From what I read, the mandated system cannot be activated remotely. The bill describes a local subsystem that somehow determines if the driver is incompetent and disabled the car. The only real danger here, imo, is the extreme vagueness of the “somehow” (not to discredit the seriousness of this danger).
First part to get ripped out of new cars
Someone linked a nice explainer on the topic in this thread, but my takeaway was that this is unlikely to ever exist
TLDR of the TLDR (which I recommend reading)
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the regulatory body is super slow, and won’t approve a change unless all the ducks are in a row
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there’s no safe way to stop or disable a car while it’s moving, so the regulatory body won’t approve it anytime soon
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I sure hope I never get injured using my chainsaw out in the forest with no cell service. It’s going to be so awesome bleeding out in a truck that cuts to 5mph max because I’m too busy holding the tourniquet on my leg while I drive. That’s certainly NEVER happened. NEVER happens, to nobody, including my mother.
Wild that’s exactly what happened to one of my professors. He like to log for a side gig (dunno why) and nearly chopped his leg off with his chainsaw and had to hold his leg together while he hauled ass to the hospital.
Yup. Quick slip is all it takes. My mom and plenty of other people have had it happen.
Holy shit, I just realized the true problem! We need to make chainsaws illegal to own, operate, and manufacture. Just look at the statistics. Oh my God, I am the human that figured it out! Make chainsaws illegal!
I’m just waiting for the moment that this kill switch is hacked, and whole cities come to a complete standstill.
Please stop…I can only get so erect
So this isn’t an external kill switch. It’s far more likely to be a lane and driver monitoring system integral to the car itself.
The big problem is what do you do with a car that’s stopped itself? Obviously you need emergency services, and obviously you can’t depend on the passengers to call them. So the real effect here is to mandate the integration of vehicles into the emergency service networks so the car can call up dispatch.
I would say this is another brick in the argument for an open source car operating system that keeps the car offline and gives you the tools you want.
I would say this is another brick in the argument for an open source car operating system
…Go analog with a carb, maybe? Only thing that can stop a carb from working is it being out of gas. Or changing altitude. Or bad fuel. Or it’s too cold and/or hot. … OK lots of things can stop carbs, but the government sure can’t, at least.
clogged jets… lol
That’s what the Seagram is for, probably.
OK lots of things can stop carbs, but the government sure can’t, at least.
Nixon thought he could, hence the war on drugs.
Do you think that last sentence will ever happen though? I’d be stoked if it did, but the cynical side of me says we’re already doomed…
Not outside of a niche group with the skills to do it themselves.
Yeah, that’s kind of what I think too. Maybe someone will figure out how to jailbreak, like another commenter suggested.
Jailbreaking cars will be the new software development in piracy. Just wait for someone to figure out a way to permanently disable this entire system.
I would jailbreak my vehicle’s head unit SOFAST!!!
American solution to a problem of deadly car chases.
I guess „don’t chase cars” would be too simple.
So any crime committed while in a car is free-game? No need for license plates, just buy a generic looking car and never stop.
You just said license plates dude.
All around the world when the police sees you speeding in a school zone and you don’t stop they won’t go and speed in a school zone as well. But we also don’t sell guns in supermarkets and later have a problem with gun violence.
What I said was why would someone that plans to commit a crime have a license plate? Since they just have to not stop and the police can’t do anything if they can’t chase.
Chasing sucks, I 100% agree it’s a terrible solution. But what other solution is there that can be implemented? Please come up with one so that we can actually do away with chasing. Somebody work on this problem.
You’re saying, cops shouldn’t chase cars. What would happen next if they can’t chase cars? They already have all kinds of rules for breaking it off for safety. And they keep making more. If there was a better solution, they would be all for it. In alot of cases, backing off can decrease safety for a bit too, so they have to be careful when they stop chasing too. The lights and sirens help keep people safer around the speeding car.
It’s not an easy problem, there is no easy solution. It’ll keep evolving as small solutions for parts of what sucks about it are thought of.
You say ‘what would happen if they didn’t chase cars?’ as if it’s hypothetical, but many places already do this.
So, what happens? They will turn on lights and sirens speed up a bit and make it clear the car should pull over. If it doesn’t, they continue to follow it with lights and sirens. If the bad guy starts driving in a manner dangerous to the public specifically in an attempt to flee, they back off. And then radio the vehicle description to a unit further ahead. Sometimes the unit ahead is unmarked, finds it, and is able to follow at safe speed. Later try to arrest occupants when they get out or can be pinned with confidence. There are also other tools available like traffic cameras and aircraft.
Yes, this sometimes causes people to get away. But it also sometimes saves lives of random bystanders…so some places decide it as a worthwhile trade off. And no these countries aren’t wastelands with Mad Max roads of death.
You are right about some situations being more dangerous not to pursue. Which is why if someone is intentionally running over people, or shooting at everyone, or some other very intense situation… the police don’t back off. But for a speeding ticket, for sure backing off.
But the US has all that too, and uses all that. The chases really only happen with non-descript stolen vehicles. Or when the occupants of the vehicle would be in more danger if the pursuit was called off than if it continued. And there is a constant analysis as to when the threat to the public outweighs the threat to the occupant.
It’s not like the police are idiots or don’t have access to the same or better intelligence tools. They have to call in high-speed pursuits and there is constant oversight.
I think pursuits are overall much safer than it makes it seem when you see them on TV or YouTube, because the boring ones don’t make it there, but the vast, vast majority are indeed boring.
This is already a concerning power to hand to a government, which could cause issues regarding the right of freedom of movement. But even if we assume an ideal and responsible government that never misuses their powers, can we be sure such a backdoor would be secure enough not to be exploited by other parties?
I see where they’re coming from, but like every good idea the government has had its going to be abused and mutated into Satan’s Christmas tree of a bill, and either be draconian or useless.
Also, this idea is shit for brains stupid lol
I’m sure we’ll never find out that the kill switch was disproportionately used on people of color.
Can’t wait to patch that out, should be as fun as that dumbshit auto-shutoff they have now.
?
Cars are computers. All those fancy features run on software. Software can be patched to get rid of unpleasant functionality.
It’s not always easy, but it’s doable, and the more of these stupid features they add, the more people spend time working on undoing them.
I was wondering more about the auto shutoff.
Oh, sorry. American cars are require to ship with a feature that shuts the engine off at stop lights, and restarts it when you take your foot off the brake. It’s done to supposedly help the environment, which it doesn’t do in the least and is also incredibly irritating.
So car hackers reconfigure their cars to disable that feature.
Got some studies for that? Cause everything I’ve seen suggested that FAS, forced auto-stop, does help.
It only helps when people leave it on.
It’s a small sample size, but literally everyone I know that owns a car with that feature turns it off immediately after starting the car every time they get in it.
It adds wear and tear to a car. The hot engine no longer has coolant running through it, hot oil drains off, etc. This is especially bad for turbos. So now the engine wears out sooner, which means the car is replaced sooner. Pulling a car out of service adds a huge amount of production resources, energy, and waste to an individual’s footprint.
There are also calculations that can be done to determine how much fuel is saved. More fuel is burned at startup. You have to be stopped and off for a minimum period of time to reduce fuel consumption. That time is heavily dependent on many factors. But it’s been found that generally you’re not saving fuel unless you’re at a light just as it turns red.
The wear and tear is the biggest issue. The worst thing you can do to an otherwise normal working engine is take it from 0 to 5000+ rpm in such short time.
Can you show me the law that states auto start stop is a requirement?
It’s not explicitly required by law, but that doesn’t make it any less mandatory. It’s one of those “we’re not saying you have to, we’re just saying we’ll beat you up if you don’t” rules federal agencies (EPA, in this case) love so much.
Car and Driver explains some of the reasoning here, though they forget to mention efficiency standards that are explicitly mandated.
Not all American cars have this. We literally just bought a Honda Civic and it doesn’t have auto stop start. That’s not to mention hybrids and electric cars. It’s implemented by car manufacturers as far as I can tell in order to meet gas efficiency requirements of the NHTSA and it’s mostly for larger consumer vehicles. SUV’s, and trucks, not your average sedan. I don’t think you represented this very well in your first comment.
Autostart stop. It’s a “feature” of newer gasoline vehicles that allows them to save gas by shutting the engine off when you’re idling (at a stop light or similar) until you touch the throttle/gas pedal and the computer reactivates the engine. This assumes there isn’t significant load on the battery like there would be if you were using your heat/AC or even the radio.
Next step will be to have it drive you to the police station and alert them of your arrival.
I remember when a remote kill switch was the unlikely yet dystopian “next step”
Don’t have time right now the deep dive into that absolute wall of text. Did get a few paragraphs in to find that your champion is Thomas Massie ® (Nut Job), that’s clarity enough for now…
