cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/3320637
YouTube and Reddit are sued for allegedly enabling the racist mass shooting in Buffalo that left 10 dead::The complementary lawsuits claim that the massacre in 2022 was made possible by tech giants, a local gun shop, and the gunman’s parents.
I think the root of the problem is the Republican party. If you look at the language the shooter used in his manifesto, it’s very very similar. There are things social media platforms can do to mitigate extremism, but people like this will continue to feel emboldened by the GOP.
Everytown Law is about to get a lesson on how Section 230 works.
I don’t really know what their goal is here. Surely they’re not stupid enough to think they could actually win this?
If you look at anything even remotely related to “men’s interests” YouTube will begin showing you alt right fascist bull shit.
Seriously. I spend a little too much time watching a short that is clearly designed to get me worked up about stereotypical communication difficulties between men & women from a “women, am I rite?” perspective, suddenly I’m getting Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan. I spend a little too much time watching a video about certain Ukrainian war equipment or a Slo Mo Guys video involving guns (wood stock hunting guns, I felt like it was the early 80s all over again before everyone decided they needed assault weapons), suddenly I’m getting served tacticool idiots with kitted-out murder machines. Or I watch a Bart Erhman video (secular New Testament scholar with a large lay audience) and suddenly I get served muslim da’wah/apologetics videos and Catholic catechism ads.
If you look at anything even remotely related to “men’s interests” YouTube will begin showing you alt right fascist bull shit.
Or if you don’t. Youtube shorts recommends Rogan constantly.
They should sue Facebook too. Facebook is rife with Nazis. And they’re fine with it.
Considering the Facebook algorithm will introduce you to neo-nazis, that would actually make sense.
Facebook says this guy’s face is fine: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100086229708504&mibextid=ZbWKwL
Dude looks like he passed out way too early at a frat party hosted by the Klan.
He’s allowed to be racist, so yeah, it’s fine.
Being a racist piece of shit is not illegal.
Have the been any legal cases on these algorithms?
Good! They should. Facebook’s algorithm supports Nazis.
I’ll take you at your word.
I mean lookingbat the details for the basis of the suit. They think they can sue someone for teaching a criminal how to do something. They think they can sue the makers of body armor for selling a guy who was not a criminal at the time of purchase, an unregulated commercial product. They think they can sue YouTube for providing motive for whatever he did.
In the law world theres a word for this. Its called a shakedown. This is grieving family’s who are vindictive. They dont care who pays, but somebody has to pay in their eyes. Sadly on the merits this case will die in court pretty fast and nobody is gonna see a dollar unless alphabet and spez’s lawyers decide they are feeling charitable. Which they won’t because settling would cause implications of guilt in the public eye.
nailed it
Former Australian Deputy Premier won a case against Google in 2022 arguing that the YouTube platform enabled journalist FriendlyJordies to make fun of him, and he won a $715,000 settlement.
Edit: Thanks for the correction, guys
Also, not a former Australian prime minister. He was the deputy premier of New South Wales.
I’m still learning Australian political terminology, you are right, I had prime minister and deputy premier confused.
FYI, the premier is like the state governor and the prime minister is like the president.
715 thousand. Not millions
Changed it. What’s a zero here or a zero there between politicians though…
True
YouTube may end up being protected by Safe Harbor laws:
sadly… this case will die in court
Only part I disagree with. It’s a very good thing that this case dies in court. It really does suck for the families, sure, but if these kinds of lawsuits worked it would cause a whole lot more problems than it solves.
Yeah, they should also sue the ISP, the power company, the company who built the criminal’s house and the people who paved the road he used. /s
Oh not wait they are suing ISPs for zeroes and ones that flow through their cables. Strange world we live in. No one would have sued the postal service for a letter they got, or their telco for a call they received before the www.
How is this a “shakedown”?
Good. Civil court is where they’re most vulnerable, this is called tort law.
In criminal cases, the defendant is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of their peers. In a civil lawsuit, the defendant is only innocent until a judge, or jury, depending thinks they’re 51% likely to be guilty, what they call the preponderance of evidence.
In other words, “probably” is good enough when you sue someone. It is not good enough if the state is trying to throw you in prison. This makes it more efficient to process the 99% of civil court cases, which are usually just dumb shit, like which of these two arguing neighbors needs to pay for having a tree on their property line cut down or something. It also results in our civil system being a very effective weapon though, as a lot of wealthier and more powerful people know pretty well.
edit for italics
edit2: If anyone doubts me you can just google “tort” and read all about our American system on wikipedia, or any number of other places.
edit3: juries in civil too.
🤔 so if gun violence is a problem… and they’ve already banned violence… what if one would ban the other thing - oh wait no it’s definitely the goofy gamer machinimas 🤭 stop giggling y’all, this is serious. you don’t wanna turn into criminals
Are you suggesting “banning guns”? If so, genuine curiosity, how would you go about doing it?
I would copy-paste what already worked in Australia, which used to have similar gun rights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0aGGOK4kAM
The same way we banned private ownership of nuclear missiles.
They banned violence. Clearly banning things is effective. It worked when they banned drugs. And 100 years ago when they banned alcohol. And there’s definitely no sex workers because prostitution is banned.
Noone is saying ban guns. People are saying we should have more thorough background checks, mandatory training, and close gun show loop holes. No, banning things doesn’t completely solve the issue. But putting obstacles in the way generally stop most crimes. Of course there will still be people who go above and beyond to commit a crime, but with the number of shootings drastically lowered you can start to address the rest more easily.
So you would legalize kiddie porn because it still exists?
No I’d kill the people that made it. There’s a difference.
Bad news…tons of people want to ban guns thinking it’ll stop the violence…
People want to regulate guns, not ban them. If a supply is reduced and people lock up the guns they do have rather than leaving them to be easily stolen, they’re less likely to be used in violence. That means when people are violent, they’re more likely to use a knife or other weapon that’s more convenient to access. When a knife is used, it’s highly unlikely that bystanders will also be killed. Also, it’s less likely that the victim themselves will die. And if you think you don’t care about the life of another person involved in violence, think selfishly about the cost that you’re paying in hospital costs and medical insurance to treat gun woulds of the people who die and can’t pay their bill which cost way, way more to treat than knife wounds. Not to mention that if you care at all about the lives of cops, you’ll realize that cops are usually the bystanders that get killed by the guns being used in violent acts.
The only guns that people want to ban are offensive weapons of war. The only thing they can do with that is commit terrorism.
People want to regulate guns, not ban them.
That’s some bullshit. The end goal is complete disarming of the public. Stop fooling yourself.
If a supply is reduced and people lock up the guns they do have rather than leaving them to be easily stolen, they’re less likely to be used in violence
Straw purchases are how the majority of firearms used in crime are obtained, not from theft.
That means when people are violent, they’re more likely to use a knife or other weapon that’s more convenient to access. When a knife is used, it’s highly unlikely that bystanders will also be killed.
Yes tell that to all the people who are killed by knives. Which is 3xs higher than all rifles combined. Which you clearly want to ban…that black plastic rifle you think is a weapon of war, kills around 50-100 people a year. Hands and feet kill 2xs all rifles combined and about 15xs more than the AR-15 yearly.
Also, it’s less likely that the victim themselves will die.
This is just nonsense…see above.
And if you think you don’t care about the life of another person involved in violence, think selfishly about the cost that you’re paying in hospital costs and medical insurance to treat gun woulds of the people who die and can’t pay their bill which cost way, way more to treat than knife wounds. Not to mention that if you care at all about the lives of cops, you’ll realize that cops are usually the bystanders that get killed by the guns being used in violent acts.
First, I’m all for single payer healthcare, secondly, cops kill on average around 1k Americans a year…yea… I’m not worried about the boots…
The only guns that people want to ban are offensive weapons of war. The only thing they can do with that is commit terrorism.
Lol handguns are used in 95% of all gun violence…and it’s like 99% of all suicides. That black scary rifle is a rounding error on firearm deaths…and it’s not a weapon of war, it’s a semi-auto rifle dressed up in plastic…the military wouldn’t be caught dead with one of them.
You totally missed every point I made and replied with, no they’re not rather than offering any evidence. Show me that the majority are pushing to ban all guns 100%. Straw purchases are already illegal but unenforced, can’t do much when cops refuse to do their job. I didn’t say people don’t die from knives, but a stab isn’t going to kill a random person on the street accidentally like a stray bullet. And there’s a huge difference between a knife wound and a bullet wound that makes it much easier to treat. And the knife doesn’t break apart, shredding nearby organs, rarely breaks larger bones, or in the case of supersonic rounds from the mentioned weapons of war, cause compression shockwaves that pulverize organs. If you haven’t spent time in combat or an ER or around gunshot wounds, you have no idea. I’ve seen organ soup after a close range stomach wound from a high powered rifle. And I don’t care that handguns are the most common. They’re also the most commonly used for defense. It’s the high powered ruffles that liquify your organs when used in drive-by shootings that have no reason to be in the hands of civilians in the first place.
If you’re going to argue for a cause, then at least know what the people on the other side are saying. Quit making up straw men and arguing slippery slope nonsense.
I feel like our problem isn’t that social media companies are not liable but that they are too big, like imagine this happening on mastodon. Generally I feel like mastodon would not allow this unless the instance was specificlly facist like the KF instance
I dont think the Fediverse is a good example of not allowing certain activities.
deleted by creator
TD literally was a breeding ground for incel hardcore altright racists and nothing was done about it.
Reddit worked very hard to protect all anti-nazi imagery and stop people from posting anti-nazi sentiment. I’d like for someone to acknowledge that they silence anyone who posts anti-nazi shit and who speaks about killing Nazis.
Many are here because of that.
Got banned for posting anti-nazi memes comparing 45 and his supporters to Hitlet and his. It gets scary drawing parallels between the beer hall putsch and jan. 6…
Nothing like a drunk angry mob when you stage failed coups!
They kept the_donald around for years after they helped organize a nazi rally.
It could be the killing part not the nazi part that they silenced you.
That’s their claim, but it’s not like I’m advocating killing a person or anything of value. I’m advocating to kill a Nazi. That’s just being an American Citizen.
They also censor content that is just outspoken again nazism and linking the current fascism in the american right to the fascists in history. Meanwhile on /r/conservative fake news and conspiracy theories about the election, the raid on Mar a Lago, racist conspiracies around BLM and violence from cops, and every other topic of republicans and democrats is a okay for reddit
Reddit has edited content, that IMO opens them up this. Once they start removing legal but undesirable content they are tacitly approving the content they haven’t removed.
It’s weird that this is a link to the exact same 25 day old post on the same community.
I am all for this
Sure the parents who are truly to blame for not raising their child properly
Everyone was responsible except the shooter. Welcome to Lawyer World.
Removed by mod
And there is no liability here, ya bagel
There is tho.
Shootings do not happen in a vacuum. They happen due to external factors such as political or religious radicalization or “just” bullying. This does not absolve the shooter of the responsibility of course since the response to, let’s say, the Great Replacement Theory lies in the hands of the shooter. The shooter could have not shot non-white people.
But then we have the people spreading the Great Replacement Theory. The people that tell their audience day in and day out that if they are not careful, there may be no whites anymore. If you keep hearing this or other racist shit day in and day out for many many many years and do not trust another source of information because the same people tell you that the other media is corrupt… You’re bound to turn “crazy” one way or another.
There’s probably even more nuance but my point is: We really shouldn’t let the people turning responsible gun owners into shooters through propaganda just get away with it, should we?
Especially in the right wing where this is a known tactic. They radicalize people and if something goes awry, they just disavow it. The right wing pundits disavowed the Jan 6 rioters they themselves “inspired” to fight for democracy. They disavowed the Club Q shooter they themselves “warned” about trans people.
Our only hope for sensible gun rights is that accountability needs to be beyond just the person who pulled the trigger.
Riiight blame youtube and reddit. First music then videogames now youtube and reddit?
