"Muso, a research firm that studies piracy, concluded that the high prices of streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music are pushing people back towards illegal downloads. Spotify raised its prices by one dollar last year to $10.99 a month, the same price as Apple Music. Instead of coughing up $132 a year, more consumers are using websites that rip audio straight out of YouTube videos, and convert them into downloadable MP3 or .wav files.
Roughly 40% of the music piracy Muso tracked was from these “YouTube-to-MP3” sites. The original YouTube-to-MP3 site died from a record label lawsuit, but other copycats do the same thing. A simple Google search yields dozens of blue links to these sites, and they’re, by far, the largest form of audio piracy on the internet."
The problem isn’t price. People just don’t want to pay for a bad experience. What Apple Music and Spotify have in common is that their software is bloated with useless shit and endlessly annoying user-hostile design. Plus Steve Jobs himself said it back in 2007: “people want to own their music.” Having it, organizing it, curating it is half the fun. Not fun is pressing play one day and finding a big chunk of your carefully constructed playlist is “no longer in your library.” Screw that.
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One of the main reasons I still pay for Spotify is because it is very cheap in my country, specially when splitting a family plan. However I noticed that the user experience has gone downhill over the past years.
I remember when I could seamlessly switch playback devices, from my car to my phone, to my computer and them a Chromecast almost instantaneously. Now I’m lucky if my devices recognise each other even if they are on the same network.
And if you have a poor internet connection, the app is near unusable because it tries yo grab online content first before checking whatever is downloaded. Time and time again I have to put my phone on aeroplane mode just for the main menu to load, it is so frustrating and this didn’t happen some 5-6 years ago
All of those things are 100% legitimate criticisms, I want to add that the UX experience has become more and more horrible. They’ve regressed terribly in most aspects of their apps, wether PC or Mobile. Absolutely unbelievable, this is the thing I see from Google search where marketing takes over from engineering/customer needs/market reality/I don’t know what. Stop shoving shit into the services. You beat piracy for a minute, you can keep that lead, you’re slowly losing it.
Honestly, if this was any other product this would be unacceptable. It’d be like all books went back to only black and white, all movies were only 480p, all music was only mono.
They keep trying to reinvent the library UI, as does Apple. But neither will ever be able to top the way the iOS music app was organized, pre-Apple-music. Every attempt to innovate has been worse
The fact that they changed the default library view from playlists to a random mix of playlist, artists, albums and podcasts without the option to choose just one category is baffling. I’m all for user options, but not by taking user choice away
Like making it impossible to just “play all songs” of a given artist. Seems like it would be simple.
I’m paying for a family plan, for my family and two friends. The day this plan goes away, or they actively prevent sharing like this, I’m done paying for music. All alternative services are considerably more expensive, and also have a much more limited library. My favorite artists get less than pennies on a dollar from this anyway. No wonder they have to sell 85$ hoodies at concerts
I got caught in a crazy loop of Spotify resetting my password once a week. they offered no help except telling me my 40 char generated password was not secure enough. so I cancelled and deleted the account. the seas are a much more friendly place.
Never left, baby! Although ripping from YouTube should be a last resort. And even then, use a proper tool like Yt-dlp.
I have a slightly different suggestion.
Inflation is crap and the first thing to go are subscriptions that raise their prices when people are already hurting. If you want retention, keep your prices locked when users are having bad times and you’re raking in record profits.
I think curation is great too, but I also think age plays a lot into individual views. A bunch of the younger guys at work were saying how they didn’t want playlists and they didn’t want to listen to an album, they just wanted to hit a button that knew their tastes musically and would give them a mix of familiar likes and new discoveries. The proceeded to describe a radio station to me, sans commercials. They were hot on all the music streaming and though I was crazy for wanting to spend time sorting through music.
Looking at a Spotify by age graph, the boomers dig it (because it’s easy?), Gen-Z and the Younger Millennials dig it, Gen X has less than half the uptake of the other groups.
We were mixing our own tapes in our tweens and teens. We wired ourselves to find music, copy it and play it in the specific order we want.
or at least that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Inflation being a major cause is definitely on my mind, too. For the past decade basically everything has experimented with becoming a subscription service, and if people aren’t doing so hot on their monthly budgets they’re going to start looking for things to cut.
A bunch of the younger guys at work were saying how they didn’t want playlists and they didn’t want to listen to an album, they just wanted to hit a button that knew their tastes musically and would give them a mix of familiar likes and new discoveries.
That’s Pandora… Eventually everything like this gets boring if you are interested in music instead of musak.
I get it though. Some people really aren’t that interested in music and just want some background noise. That’s probably even the majority of people, but I’m not sure it’s entirely an age thing.
Man, your comment reminded me of mp3.com back in the early days of digital music.
It had a lot of up and coming bands on it. And it allowed users the ability to create their own curated ‘radio stations’. You could compile hours of music from those artists and share it with the rest of the user base. And other users could recommend songs for inclusion in your station (which also helped you discover new bands).
I created a station that was getting some decent listening numbers, and I got some good recommendations from listeners (sometimes self-promotion, but that’s okay).
Then one day it was all gone. Probably related to the backlash from the record industry caused by Napster (even though, I think, mp3.com had acquired rights from those artists?). Sad times.
That’s what music streaming fused with social media should be about.
i love going through my music library at times, it’s a treat. and yeah, gen-x. strange breakdown…
A radio station is a small selection of music curated by an individual and meant for the masses.
Modern music streaming has dynamically curated music from a nearly infinite source, it’s really not the same.
Gen Xer here…
It didn’t use to be this bad. The FCC (and ftc) dropped the bag (regulatory capture), letting clear channel gobble up stations.
When I was a kid had a couple great local stations back in the day. One was a highschool station that local bands could send in cassette tapes and they would play them on Tuesdays. They had a Mosh Monday curated by local metalhead kids/young adults (there was vocational training at the radio station in evening classes).
Even the commercial channels were better. Not great or anything, but they had a lot more variety.
Spotify tried to shove Doja Cat at me the other day. I have never ever EVER listened to anything that would even remotely suggest I would like Doja Cat. It may be infinite but there is still someone behind the scenes pushing particular songs and artists.
If you don’t like the artist, then block them. It’s not that hard. I blocked Travis Scott after he got those people killed at his concert and I haven’t seen a single thing with him since.
On my iPhone it’s 5 taps, which seems excessive but whatever. It’s impossible to do when I’m driving, and also impossible from the Windows app (yes, really, the feature is not available - https://community.spotify.com/t5/Live-Ideas/Desktop-Other-quot-Don-t-play-this-artist-quot-on-desktop/idi-p/5027612 )
Sucks to have your radio stations. Mine rotates crap through all the time.
Funny story, when I started doing curation, I wanted to get a good list to start from. I looked at the API for Jack FM because I kind of like their mix.
I knew that there was going to be a substantial amount of repetition because you hear the same stuff a lot. Turns out there API doesn’t have any limits on it. If you talk to the iHeartRadio API and ask it for 20,000 of the last played songs it’ll give them to you.
I went back 3 years. Their entire roster was 600 songs. As I started pulling my own curation together from their list I noticed some things were absent. I noticed that some of the things that were on the same album and were arguably better songs weren’t in the curation list. My guess is that whatever catalog they were licensed to pull from they only had a certain number of top hits. A lot of the stuff was the b side of the singles, It was probably a cost savings scenario.
Later on I decided I wanted some other collections to pull from so I started pulling serious XM stations and my local radio stations. Unfortunately for this phase of the date I had to collect for a long period of time so I don’t have years of history. My local radio station had 6,000 unique songs played over the period of 1 and 3/4 years. Which I never would have guessed because again you just hear the same stuff over and over but it’s confirmation bias.
Obviously it’s nothing like the catalog Spotify has where you might hear two new things to every old thing. But there was a fair amount of discovery there. The whole concept of adding pop as it comes in you know.
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight!
I’m just here pondering. Might be as wrong as anyone.
I found some of my favourite bands by downloading mislabelled songs on limewire.
Piracy creates an endless loop of artists taking advances and eventually losing royalties. That’s just what I’ve seen growing up in the music /film/ TV industry and briefly working in both. Screw labels and Spotify but go support artists and actually buy stuff.
What are you saying OP? You don’t want video and paid, exclusive podcasts on your streaming service? /s
What you don’t want to pay for the streaming service that brings you Joe Rogan and his disinformation? Why not?
I used to do lots of piracy back in the days. I am so glad those days are behind me and have not been big on the scene. What would be some sites to avoid to not fall in the trap of being a criminal. I love giving companies all of my money and do not ever want to go back to my old ways. Please help me with a nice list of things to avoid.
Please for the love of god avoid buying a real mp3 player with a metal shell, become a linux nerd, install yt-dlp, and run this command in the terminal
yt-dlp -x --audio-format mp3 -o "%(playlist_index)02d - %(title)s.%(ext)s" MUSIC-PLAYLIST-URL-LINKIt also totally doesn’t work on other music websites like bandcamp.Screw MP3, Opus is better.
Thesome of the old music sites are still there. But I would avoid torrentgalaxy.to it has curated weekly albums of top playlists from Spotify, tiktok, etc that have all the new stuff updated every week, for your local playback displeasure. Only uncool people play locally stored music, all the cool kids stream. Do not go there.youtube-dl -F url
That will list formats; get one of the audio only formats
youtube-dl -f 140 url
Bonus is that the script works for lots of sites. It can get movies from tubitv for example
-f 140is AAC, please don’t do that.-f 251is better since it’s Opus, the best versatile lossy codec so far.I’ll try that out. Thanks for the heads up.
I wish we had Google Play Music again. It really was an excellent app and had flawless suggestions for me I always enjoyed, and truly the most intuitive mixes. Google is evil of course, but honestly one of the best features was the listing of bands playing near you in the upcoming weeks, I went to so many shows because I’d try their music via the GPM suggestions.
I listen to the Henry Rollins show on KCRW to try to get into new music but despite my appreciation of him I find his music tastes repetitive. How many weeks in a row can I listen to the Jesus and Mary Chain?
I don’t listen to nearly as much music these days, YouTube music is so ass, I really miss gpm. YouTube can’t even get notifications right, like I get a notification that a band I like released a new album or something so I tap it… and it just fuckin opens the home page of the app??? EVERY SINGLE TIME. How do you fuck up even the most basic feature of the notifications!!!
The “radio” always brings me back to the same shit that’s playing on the actual radio, regardless of me playing the radio based off of bluegrass or fuckin clown techno idfk it will play imagine dragons and blinding lights shit eventually, guaranteed. The algorithms are actually dumpster fires.
Probably around 60% of the roughly 20,000 songs I uploaded (I think that was the limit) didn’t get transferred over and are just gone. Thanks Google.
Also even though the notifications don’t work, it is nice to know when your favorite artists release something new. Gpm was great about this, ytm seems to think I want the hottest vevo shit
Also who the fuck ever thought it was a good idea to use the music video versions for songs instead of the song version, when we’re in the music app, should be fired into the sun. They’re probably the same person that originally synced your video and music “histories,” skewing your YouTube algorithm entirely so your homepage would suggest nothing but music videos
Seriously, what a shitshow of an app, but that’s where most of Google is headed these days
I still use it because I will not give Spotify money, and Apple Music is SUPER Caucasian and repetitive, I still like YTM the best, but it is way shitty. I hate the video function.
Also who the fuck ever thought it was a good idea to use the music video versions for songs instead of the song version, when we’re in the music app, should be fired into the sun.
Agreed, this is infuriating. I’m in the music app, searching for a piece of music by it’s exact name and artist, and I know that it’s available on YouTube Music.
Here’s a lyric video uploaded to some random asshole’s YouTube channel. Or maybe you want this awful cover version from this other asshole on YouTube. Oh, my mistake, you wanted it as performed by the actual band? That you included in your search? How about this phone camera recording of a live show.
It’s compete garbage. Made even worse when you’re searching by voice command while driving and can’t just quickly correct bad results by looking through the list yourself.
The fun part is, before it was Google play music it was another service by another company that I can’t even remember now. Google bought it, then fiddled with it for a few years before shit canning it.
I miss the original app, it was wonderful for just throwing music on based on your mood.
I just always figured they canned it once they bought YouTube and started YouTube Music. I never got into Google Play music, but I use YouTube music, and it don’t do everything I am seeing Google play music did.
I remember that app! Can’t think of the name.
I never liked suggestions/radios on any streaming platform - GPM, Apple, Deezer, Spotify, they’re all shit.
I use streaming platforms solely for checking out new music that picked my interest on sites like RYM, albumoftheyear, anydecentmusic, Quietus, Picthfork, etc. If I like what I hear, I acquire it either on Bandcamp or on Soulseek and into Plex it goes.
Have you used Jamendo radios?
No, I don’t think so. Should I? I have a vague memory about seeing Jamendo in Rhythmbox when it shipped in Ubuntu by default. It was a long time ago, I didn’t even know it was still a thing.
It still works. No famous groups in there but it works.
Sad about what happened to Pitchfork.
what happened to pitchfork?
Got sold to GQ and it’s assumed that’ll kill it off.
Ahh got it. I don’t use it as regularly as I did 10-20 years ago but I’d still miss it being around.
I wish we had Google Play Music again.
I liked the fact that I could take my Google survey money and buy albums on that service. It’s pretty irksome that they cancelled it.
Loved that part! I bought many records that way. And when we went to YouTube music one of the records I bought disappeared from my uploaded music too.
And when we went to YouTube music one of the records I bought disappeared from my uploaded music too.
Yeah, that’s why I made sure to download every single album I bought. Digital rights are a joke.
I used to use Google Play music back in the day. It was also nice to upload your own music and then be able to stream it anywhere.
Now I use Plex with Plexamp which works almost as well.
And to buy music!
Plex is not great for privacy or ownership these days. Jellyfin or Kodi are much better.
Does their music player compare to Plexamp at all?
Best alternative to plexamp I’ve found is Symfonium. It supports plex, jellyfin, subsonic and possibly others.
Thanks!
Don’t use shady sites. Use yt-dlp.
but yt audio quality is terrible.
but yt audio quality is terrible.
So are the bluetooth speakers and ear buds that most people use to listen to music these days.
fair point.
That’s why we gotta give them the chance for good audio!
I have a dream…
So are the bluetooth speakers and ear buds that most people use to listen to music these days.
Heretic! Nothing that my Lord and Savior Apple bestows upon the unwashed is less than divine!
yt-dlp can use your browser cookies for YT premium and therefore YT music. That’s 256kBit/s AAC, it’s okay.
Most people can’t tell the difference between low bitrate vs high bitrate. Usually just confirmation bias.
Have you truly tested whether you can? I don’t mean playing each side by side and seeing whether you can tell the difference, but actually testing yourself in a way that you don’t know which is being played (like having someone else play it for you).
Maybe you can’t, what headphones/avr setup do you have?
Not fun is pressing play one day and finding a big chunk of your carefully constructed playlist is “no longer in your library.”
this is exceptionally true from my experience with Spotify. I had downloaded a playlist that had a specific song. One day I went to play my locally downloaded playlist only to glance over it and see that the song was unavailable. I had the song downloaded. In my device and it still removed the song. No warnings, no nothing. Ever since, I downloaded everything locally and completely ditched Spotify. Fuck this scummy behaviour
The strange bit is, even in the 80s,I was paying waaaay more than that per year for records and tapes.
It’s only the fact that someone suggested I had to pay them a subscription that causes me to download illegally
Don’t fucking tell me I need to keep paying every year for something I don’t own, I’m not buttoned up the back
Yah, I remember paying like $10-15 mid 1990s for a single CD album. And we liked it! Easily spent a few hundred bucks a year on music.
I swear if these stupid music labels just switched to 5 cents a song, no DRM, own it forever, global distribution, bill you once a month to manage transaction fees – they’d make more money than god.
Sheesh, kids have it so easy now… Back in my day, we had to set sail along the Atlantic trade routes looking for ships full of the latest wax cylinders out of Europe and Asia. Didn’t have anything to play them on but at least we owned our collections.
For me, it’s neither the price nor the quality of apps (idgaf, it plays music in the background). The thing that pushes me towards piracy is the same as for movies and TV shows: disappearing content. Because of content licensing deals, every piece of media is temporary on a service. I do rewatch movies from time to time and it’s infuriating if it’s gone (or rather would be, if I was still paying for any streaming service). This is especially true for music. My Spotify favorites list has a huge percentage of greyed out entries (and I’m pretty sure there are things that were outright deleted).
I still use spotify as well. It works for me, i just found like 10 new songs last week. At the same time, last year i listened 2hrs/day on average.
BUT at the same time, every few months i export my whole playlists, just in case, using this site.
Over 20 years ago, the internet was revolutionized through free music file sharing. Today, Napster’s legacy lives on through websites that rip YouTube’s audio.
Is this guy a boomer or a zoomer? It sure seems like he doesn’t know that what made Napster great wasn’t really the downloading so much as how it facilitated discovering new music. Looking through other people’s collections while the thing you came for downloaded was amazing.
Edit: I looked it up, Zoomer
Napster was not great for discovery. These were the days of 56k modems. Even with 128k mp3s it took a while to download a song. Idk, maybe I used it differently, but Napster was definitely a “look for specific song” application.
Discovery came later with Kazaa and DC++ and the beginnings of broadband.
Once you found the song and started downloading it you had plenty of time to browse the rest of the library of the person you were downloading from. That could lead to finding stuff you never heard of that you would like. The only catch was that you couldn’t listen to it immediately, but you could Google what you found to get an idea of what it was and go from there.
Google was not really popular in 99-01, nor did modems have the bandwidth to do two things at once effectively. How would you “get an idea”? Streaming audio barely existed outside of some RealPlayer things.
If your comment was about Kazaa, I’d agree. It’s about Napster which puts it about 5 years off imo.
Nah, Google was a thing by the time Napster was around. If you were hip enough to know about one you probably knew about the other. You’d get an idea by figuring out what genre the artist was, reading reviews, just seeing where discussion was taking place. Not by listening to it, you’d have to queue it up to download and wait while hoping your source didn’t go offline before it downloaded. And yes, even at 56k you could load and read text while downloading MP3s, it was just slow.
I dunno, I was active in piracy at this time and many, many more people knew about Napster than Google. Napster was news worthy in 1999; Google was not. Google is much more of a 00s phenomenon. You’ve got 9/11 between the two. Napster happened before all that.
It could be all in how I used it, but I’d herald the beginning of discovery right there with the widespread availability of 5Mbps cable broadband in the US, so early 00s, right there with the rise of Google. Napster is a bit early for that IMO. I understand you could but most people didn’t as 56k speeds really limited discovery by library browsing, not to mention poor tagging / file name etiquette.
By the time DC++ had risen in popularity, around 03-04, this was prime time library browsing piracy times.
Eh, whether or not we agree or disagree, it was fun to recall the early days of my journey. Have a good one.
Did it ever go away?
